That 2.1 is back on again

[XMX]

Hi Robert

I got a set of these "etoile de mers" a couple of weeks ago, and they're centreless. I thought it was only the Monte Carlos that were centreless.

Can't you remember the posting which your wheel-trims was the TOPIC and where I posted up the different types with the PDF file link ?

...... take special care/attention it fitting a set of second-hand Alloys O/E 'Monte Carlo' or 'Etoile' style as they may look the same but could be a different thickness thro' the hub section (19mm or 16.5mm later spec.) , if say you've sourced a couple from breakers yard and a couple more from another (ie. E-bay) and therefore the threaded stud-bolt lengths may need/could be different

As the post June1998/99 manufactured (RP7847 >) XM O/E alloys styles are actually called 'Ville De Monte Carlo' or 'New Etoile' due to the thinner section thro' the wheel rim/hub and the shorter 42mm (Under head) stud/bolts (So if your fitting 'Monte Carlo' or 'Etoile' alloys off another XM which don't come with the original stud/bolts make sure you source the correct ones) refer to pages 9,10 &11 (Thumbnails 11,12 &13 respectively) of THIS pdf file
Also note in the Remarks box (In the PDF file) for the 'New Etoile' Alloy does not have a drilled centre boss like the 'Etoile' Alloy wheel therefore making it more difficult to get a tyre place to get the wheel balanced (Unless they have the wheel adapter) as the similar feature with the 'Monte Carlo' style.

I hope this may be of help to choose/use the correct stud-bolts and thread lengths with these type of Alloy wheels and also decipher the correct name for the sometimes called 'Spider/Spider Web' and 'Wobbly web/Jelly fish' alloys

XMX

[xmexclusive]

Hi Robert

Were your centreless light alloys and short bolts the 1999 model year ones as described by XMX?
They only lasted a year to RPO No: 8210.
From RPO No: 8211 Citroen for the 2000 model year yet again changed the alloy wheels and bolts.
No change was made to the wheel names but the bolt holes in the wheels were widened and chamfered to take a new "dual purpose" wheel bolt.
The spare wheel became a standard steel one.
The dual purpose bolts had a taper to suit the steel wheels and a flat head for use with the alloys.

John

[steelcityuk]

Being the naive person that I am I thought the Citroen alloys were designed for aerodynamic reasons. I think your explaination sounds closer to the mark.

Steve.

[robert_e_smart]

Hi XMX & John,

I missed the PDF the last time round.

So there are 2 types of new etoile wheels. Madness. I think its mad that they even changed them in the first place. The Xm wasn't a commercial success, and just before production ceases, they decide to change the alloy wheels twice!

The wheels I have came off a 2000 registered car, and have a slight chamfered edge in the wheel bolt hole. Will the later wheel bolt as per the PDF be suitable in this application?

Robert

[andmcit]

I'd imagine the subtle changes in the design of an identical in appearance wheel are more likely
instigated by the supplier/producer of them more than by Citroen itself. We don't know what
the manufacture regulation changes were either. Maybe because the numbers sold were do low
at the end batches of wheels were commissioned from the supplier where the goalposts had been
moved each time. It's even possible that new model ranges from Citroen using millions of new
wheel bolts had to be used so a few hundred Xm alloys got redesigned to match being the far
more cost effective option.

Commercially, I'm guessing that decisions aren't made on a whim or just to be bloody minded
although we are talking about the French here...

Andrew

[xmexclusive]

Hi Andrew

The changes to centreless wheels may have been made for asthetic reasons or simply that a solid centre can be thinner so uses less alloy and is cheaper.
The final change was to eliminate the need for a special steel spare wheel that could be fitted with standard alloy bolts.
The combined alloy flats/steel taper bolt is a Peugot standard.
As far as Citroen are concerned changes in production are covered by acurate recording against VIN.
Most owners will only have one car and be expected to go to dealers who will only use new correctly identified parts.
For those of us using servicable spare parts this is a total minefield unless you stick with the standard taper fit steel wheels.

John

[xmexclusive]

Hi Robert

If you had the final type of alloys the countersinking and chamfer should be very noticable in the bolt holes.
From the outer edge two thirds of the depth of the hole is bored out parallel to roughly 50% greater diameter.
There is then a 45 degree chamfer down to the approx 5mm of standard bolt shank hole.
In the earlier versions shown on the PDF's there is a bit of an anomaly.
The detailed wheel/bolt cross-section shows a plain hole drilled in the alloy for the bolt.
The smaller scale wheel cross-sections both show a very flat taper for the outer third of the hole depth.
From your description you most likely have the middle version, the first "New Etoille" and need 42mm parallel alloy bolts.

John

[citroenxm]

John,

The same happened with the Xantia VSX type alloys... Some sets had a counter sunk to take the Steel Wheel bolts, and some were a flat bottom JUST to take the flat Alloys wheel bolts...

Paul

[andmcit]

Yep, the Activa rims went from plastic centre cap to a solid wheel design too!
I'm not sure whether the VSX design changed to solid centre mind - they just got
superceded by the solid centre bobbly minilite Exclusive design.

Andrew

[robert_e_smart]

I think I have New Etoile Version 1. I compared it to an Old Etoile (with a nice plastic cap in the middle) and I didn't see a big difference to the bolt hole design either. There was a slight taper on both, but nothing massive.