2.5td - opinions? (John?)

[jorgy]

Hi all

What do u think about this one?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1994-CITROEN-XM-E ... 414a231f49

Have asked some generic stuff already, anything specific to the 2.5 engine I should ask?

Is the price ridiculous for the mileage you think?

Will the engine and ancilliaries be falling apart on me in the next 1 year?

Thanks
George

[onthecut]

Hi George.

The big elephant in the room, which I don't see mentioned in his list is the clutch. I've had them last until 300k, but there seems to be a general thread that after about 170k -ish you are getting into borrowed time and by all accounts it's a very major job on the 2.5. I guess by 'auxiliary' timing belt he means the alternator and a/c belt. Be interesting to know when the timing belts proper were done. Not a bad job at all on the 2.5 (although around a three figure one for the bits), but a useful bargaining point. A lot of the 2.5s I've had have developed a smoking habit when you clog them --- worth asking, but ideally you want to go and see it first hand. The other thing that is nice to look at is the state of the coolant -- signs of it blowing out of the bottle, being full of rust or leak sealer or just plain water should all set alarm bells ringing. Have to say as well that the fuel consumption figures sound a little optimistic. In general driving, all those I've had have been similar, giving around the 40 mpg mark, with perceptibly less if towing anything of substance.
Looks a nice car overall, but I'd want to see it in the flesh and go for a spin in it before entertaining a four figure price.

Mike.

[xmexclusive]

Hi George

First my approach to XM buying was very different from the normal buy one car, must get it right.
I viewed any 2.5 as potentially a collection of difficult to source spares. That usually made any 2.5 XM worth £300 to me.
The £300 came from the Citroen dealers buying in valuation so is a year or so out of date due to the blip in value from the scrappage scheme.
Four or so years ago when I first started collecting 2.5's in ernest the buy in value was £1200.
I have not seen a car worth buying or bidding on since scrappage started. Got much of what I want so most seem high priced to me.
If the car actually drove reasonably and had a good length of MOT that was a bonus because I could get some use from it.
I could weigh up the real condition of the critical spares on the hoof so to speak.
On mileage I consider that a typical 2.5 should last to 250k. In my rule of thumb guide 50k from an XM is worth £300.
So my typical valuation of a car that had done 200k would be between £300 and £600.
Made up of £300 worth of mileage left in it and £300 worth of spares.
I might adjust up a bit if the spares were particularly desirable, say new clutch or strut heads last year.

From this you will see that I think that high mileage 2.5's in particular can be overhyped as a good bet.
In practice whatever the appearance and records they are well used cars with lots of well worn and difficult to source components.
This is particularly so if relying on a single on road car and needing to pay garages to carry out repairs.

Sorry to be a bit pessimistic. The particular car will most likely be on my watch list but only to see what happens to it.

John

[jorgy]

Thanks very much Mike+John for replies.

I've asked about the clutch and the timing belt last night so should get answers today. How many hours roughly is the clutch job -I've got no idea at all?

John, what do u mean that a 2.5 will last about 250k, u mean there's a specific expensive component that's likely to expire and make repair unworthwhile, or this engine likely to develop cracks or turbo life ending, or.....?

Thanks
George

ps. because it's indeed expensive I may not bid at all this time but want to talk to him and see -not following 2.5 values, but I guess this auction will be left without bids. Sadly, going to see is not an option, it's at the other side of the country!

[xmexclusive]

Hi George

The 250k is just my assumed average life for a 2.5 XM, some do not make it, some go well past.
You check them out before buying and then see if you can beat the average.
It is mainly based on typical clutch life. Dealer price of replacement is approx £1500. Indy maybe £1000 if you can find one willing to do the job.
The cylinder head is another high cost item. Not as prone to the headgasket going as 2.1's but if it does go then 50% of the time the head is cracked and scrap.
The few critical bits are expensive to replace new and most likely suspect secondhand.
Today it is usually the price of repairs that condems 2.5's not the inability to repair.
Though with Citroen's high price, long delay, only from France spares policy this is bound to get worse.

John

[jorgy]

Thanks John, I see,

...and what do u think of consumption figures he states -Mike thinks they're optimistic?

cheers
G

[citroenxm]

49.7!! Huh I REALLY DO NOT THINK SO!!

Even the best HDi does not give that constantly!! Im not a 2.5 driver, but I REALLY do not think 49.7 is an easy figure to achive... more like 39 to 41 mpg..

I could be wrong though, Im going by comparison...

**EDIT: Unless he drove at 30 mph everywhere!

Paul

[rowanmoor]

Hmmm.... 49.7 is possible on a long run in the summer if you have an empty road and don't slow down/speed up and don't go fast etc. I have got roughly that once, but it was exceptional driving conditions and exceptional driving style.

If he has never got below 43mpg then I would say he has a very sedate driving style. I have never got below about 27mpg for a tank average But I rarely get above 40mpg. I don't hang about though.

[jorgy]

Thanks all for info.

Am I right this will have the newer 5+2 pump or is it possible it'd have a single output pump with FDV?

cheers
George

[xmexclusive]

Hi George

All 2.5's got the newer type 5+2 pump.
Top of the stack by the ECU box on aircon fitted models.
Down bottom of the stack on non aircom models.
The advertised one being an early car will have Bendix ABS which I dislike on reliability grounds.

John