Robert's 2.5 Exclusive

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robert_e_smart
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Robert's 2.5 Exclusive

Post by robert_e_smart » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:06 pm

Afternoon folks,

As mentioned in some of the other posts; my daily hack at the moment is a 1998 2.5 TD Exclusive. So I had thought I better introduce her, and detail some of the trials and tribulations that I have had with her as well.

She is a well used example sporting 212K miles, and is now in pretty fine fettle after some initial grief.

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There is quite a bit of a story with this XM. It has spent most of its days with its previous owner in Belfast, and I have known the car for a while, and spoken to the previous owner a few times as well.

A few weeks ago, the car threw up the low engine oil pressure warning light, the previous owner called me for my opinion, so I said it was a 50/50 chance of being a genuine fault or a faulty sensor. In the end it was a faulty sensor, and there was no problem there. However the AA recovered the car home for him, and he decided to tow the car to his Citroen mechanic for repairs. Their journey usually takes them over 2 hours on a good day, so it was quite a trek to tow the car with a Pickup truck. Now our owner decided that he would have his son tow the car whilst he sat in the car with it running so he could have hydraulics! You don't need me to tell you of the lunacy of this, especially with a potential low oil pressure fault. But no matter; despite having brakes and steering, he still managed to crash the car into the back of the son's pick up!

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As chance would have it a friend of mine was driving by and told me about seeing this Xm involved in what he thought was an accident. I knew immediately who it was and offered to lend a hand to get his car back to the safety of my yard in the meantime as it was getting dark when this happened.

The rest is history and I bought the car to use for spares at worst, or to repair and use until the MOT and Tax expired.

The accident has damaged the bumper, and some of the lights as can be seen in the pictures but also the A/C rad, and the main rad end casing also broke where the rad shell locates into a hole in the subframe. The most annoying thing was that the radiators were both replaced with new items a few months previous to this.

On repairing the car, I took it for a drive, and was very disappointed with the lack of performance from the car. It wasn't as fast as I remembered the other 2.5s I had driven. It reminded me of the old 1.9 D BX estate I had a few years back, it was lethargic!

Being a later car it has extra crap to make the car comply with the then stricter emission requirements. A bit of initial investigation of all air hoses showed that the upper engine bay hoses were all in good condition and tightly clamped. A look underneath revealed that one of the air feed pipes at the back of the block was loose. Needless to say it was a bugger to tighten up the clamp. No noticeable improvement.

Next port of call was the vacuum pipes for the EGR. I removed the inlet manifold to investigate, and was surprised at how easy it was to remove from the car compared to the other 2.5s that I have broken. No wonder it was easy to remove, the EGR link pipe was not connected to the exhaust manifold.

I'm going to borrow Steve's (steelcity) pics if he doesn't mind to show the 2.5 EGR system.

This is what I was greeted to when the inlet was removed, a gaping big hole in the exhaust manifold where the link pipe should have been.

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To seal that up, I found that a 24mm bolt head from an old towbar assembly was a nice snug fit. I welded the bolt into the exhaust manifold, and sealed the whole way round as best I could.

On the inlet side, the EGR valve sits under the inlet manifold.

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To seal this side off, I cut the lid of a jam jar to size, and put some instant gasket around the inlet side and clamped the new seal piece onto the inlet manifold with the old EGR valve.

On re-assembly I took the car for a drive and noticed a slight improvement in performance, it was getting closer to a 2.1 TD auto ;) ;) But no where near 2.5 standards.

Throughout this whole process, I was talking to John (Xmexclusive) and browsing the French Planete Citroen forums.

I decided to investigate fuelling as the next port of call. I was going to change the fuel filter, and check the tank pick up for blockages, as the car would never smoke no matter how hard I drove it. The next thing I discovered was that the MAP sensor which measures the inlet manifold air pressure and sends signals to the ECU to increase fuelling when needed was gone. All I had was a bolt screwed into the pipe that the MAP sensor fits onto, and a spare electrical plug.

The MAP sensor usually bolts onto the bulkhead beside the LHM tank, and there are 2 types which happen to not be interchangeable! Below are the two types, the eariler more common variety and the later one below it again.

Credit for the pictures to some of the posters on Planete Citroen.

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A quick trawl on Service.Citroen showed that the new sensor was still available for approx £150. Not wishing to pay that class of money, a quick part number search brought up that the same sensor was used on Rover 25 and 45 2.0 Turbo diesels. Excellent, I thought, the local scrappies will be filled with these! Not to be the case, plenty of K series cars but no diesels to be found. I did find an outlet for new sensors on e-bay: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/180633071559? ... 665wt_1164 . A much better price than the Citroen one you'll agree. A quick call to John to share my news on finding a supply of sensors, worked massively in my favour. One of John's Sorned cars has the same sensor on it, and I could borrow the sensor to try it out on my car. On Saturday morning the post mans arrival was waited with anticipation. The new sensor had arrived, and when fitted to the car normal service has been resumed. :D :D :D

This 2.5 now pulls like a train and flys! Excellent! Now my fuel economy is suffering! But I can now get where I want to go much more quickly!

My thanks to John for his invaluable help and support in helping me fix this car, has prolonged the cars life a bit longer (now going to run to MOT expiry and not Tax expiry and may even attempt to MOT again) and saved me a lot of heart ache and trouble.
1990 XM 2.1 Turbo SD
2008 Volvo V70 D5 SE Lux Automatic
2009 Volvo XC90 D5 SE Automatic

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citroenmad
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Re: Robert's 2.5 Exclusive

Post by citroenmad » Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:11 pm

A nice looking car Robert, dones't appear to be many 2.5s around now either, so a good thing that one is saved for a while longer.

Lucky that the nose cone want not injured in the accident!
Chris.

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Re: Robert's 2.5 Exclusive

Post by xmexclusive » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:00 pm

Well done Robert, keep my next batch of spares running to see how good they are!
Citroenmad, plenty of 2.5's still keep turning up.
The Mk2 XM production for the UK had a very high proportion of them.
More estates than cars but still some gems out there if you keep a look out.
Plenty of difficult to source spares from those that are too well used or too far gone.
A properly sorted 2.5 is a great car to drive, never regretted getting rid of the V6's.
I shall try to stick with the 2.5's to the bitter end.
Hopefully that is at least 300k away for me.

John

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Re: Robert's 2.5 Exclusive

Post by robert_e_smart » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:45 pm

xmexclusive wrote:Well done Robert, keep my next batch of spares running to see how good they are!
:lol: Absolutely!

I must say that the 2.5 is the only manual Xm to have. I love the hydraulically operated clutch and the cable gear change. Nice smooth and precise!
1990 XM 2.1 Turbo SD
2008 Volvo V70 D5 SE Lux Automatic
2009 Volvo XC90 D5 SE Automatic

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Re: Robert's 2.5 Exclusive

Post by Dieselman » Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:48 pm

robert_e_smart wrote:
xmexclusive wrote:Well done Robert, keep my next batch of spares running to see how good they are!
:lol: Absolutely!

I must say that the 2.5 is the only manual Xm to have. I love the hydraulically operated clutch and the cable gear change. Nice smooth and precise!
Having driven endorfin's 2.5 I would agree, but a LHD 2.1td has a wonderful clutch action as well.

My 2.1td with a new clutch is also very light.

As I read your story I was confident you were going to say MAP sensor. I came across one with the pipe split, which had thrown the ECU into limp home mode, thus not turbo.
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92 3.0 V6-24. 5713 EXY Black
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White Exec
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Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, Exclusive, Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime, Sable Phenicien
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Robert's 2.5 Exclusive

Post by White Exec » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:43 pm

Robert,

Congratulations on the acquisition of the 2.5, and getting the engine sorted! 2.5 like a 1.9D BX ??? For heaven's sake!!!

Nice to see your shots of the interior: It has the same grey suede/leather as ours, which seemingly didn't feature for long. Ours is 1998 too, but that was the first registered date; the car was actually manufactured June 1996 (the RP number is below). How about yours?

You're quite right about "flying". In 2000, I had ours Superchipped (two replacement EPROMS), and saw overall fuel consumption improve from 30mpg overall to 32.5, but, best of all, the performance. One of my high in-gear acceleration figures (I forget which without burrowing in the files) went from 18 secs to 11 ! (The Superchip replacements were for the XM 2,5 TD and the Peugeot 605. Might still be available, although not listed...)

You have a great car.

Chris
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

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Re: Robert's 2.5 Exclusive

Post by xmexclusive » Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:48 pm

Hi Chris

Can I read your EPROMS sometime.

John

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White Exec
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Posts: 6642
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Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
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1992 BX19D Millesime, Sable Phenicien
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Robert's 2.5 Exclusive

Post by White Exec » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:30 am

Hi John,

Well, I've had some intriguing offers in my time, but "Can I read...?" Good grief!

Well, yes...of course. But the chips are in the ECU, in the car, which is here in Spain. Any thoughts?

Might also be worth a call to Superchips http://www.superchips.co.uk to see if still available. Their site does list chips for the 2.1TD (XM & 605), but doesn't mention the 2.5. When I had mine done, they downloaded the modified programming from Buckingham HQ to West Drayton, where they burned the 2 EPROMS and fitted them. The software was listed by HQ as Peugeot 605 (2.5TD).

"Come up and see me sometime..."

Chris
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

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Re: Robert's 2.5 Exclusive

Post by robert_e_smart » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:12 am

When I was doing my trawling on Planete Citroen some of the posters on there had bought Eprom chips from the same chap that sells the 2.1 Eprom upgrade chips that I believe Ken was talking about in another post.

The guy that had the Eprom upgrade loved the extra performance, but needless to say his fuel consumption suffered drastically.
1990 XM 2.1 Turbo SD
2008 Volvo V70 D5 SE Lux Automatic
2009 Volvo XC90 D5 SE Automatic

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Re: Robert's 2.5 Exclusive

Post by xmexclusive » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:28 am

Hi Chris

My suggestion was half joking.
My XM interest is now only in 2.5TD's.
I have been collating data on the various versions of ECU used with the DK5 engine.
So far including the Pug 605 I have identified seven variaints and found a bit about the differences.
I now also know a bit about incompatibilities between versions.
In this process I have obtained a number of spare ECU's and examined their contents.
The later XM versions are very difficult to obtain as there are so few about.
Noz on the other XM forum has a similar interest and we keep in touch.
I am now able to rest to factory settings any version 2.5 ECU's with lost immobiliser codes.
At the moment I working on the way the ECU stores engine fault codes.
As part of the my ECU examination process I read and store a referenced copy of the EPROM data information.
Comparing these data blocks from each version while knowing the functional changes made to the car identifies the specific code changes.
So for example comparing your EPROM data with the standard data for that version will identify where fuelling instructions are stored.
That piece of information would be virtually impossible to obtain by comparing EPROM versions.

John

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