Citroen XM Forum

Car stuck in 2nd gear garage says linkage ok-its the gearbox. Is this definitely an engine out job or is there any chance of getting at the selector shaft with the gearbox in situ?

I believe the 2.5 has a cable change, John would know, he will probably be along in a minute.

Peter

Hi Exem

Peter is right but the cable change on a 2.5 (MG5T) box is a very heavy duty affair.
Have never taken a selector to bits but not hear of on locking in gear.
Will see if I can find a spare one to take to bits to check.
The box has an end cover plate that can be got to through the wheel arch.
Gear order is 5th nearest coverplate and doubt that any other gears can be removed that way.
The workshop manual shows all gears being lifted out as a single item from the other end.
That suggests engine out and split the box off I am afraid.

John

Exem wrote:Car stuck in 2nd gear garage says linkage ok-its the gearbox. Is this definitely an engine out job or is there any chance of getting at the selector shaft with the gearbox in situ?

Hi, and welcome to the forum (seeing that its only you 2nd post) as I see that your first post was back in JUNE 2010 and nobody really noticed

So before you start pulling things apart, maybe a second opinion is required !

Firstly , is this garage a main/Indy Citroen garage or just 'An Any-car' garage ?

The reason I ask is, I'd very surprised if it's just 'Stuck in gear' due to a gearbox failure because the 2.5 TD G/boxes are very robust (With normal operation/usage) my higher mileage VSX has covered over 230k and is 'quiet/smooth as silk' what sort of mileage has you vehicle covered, also Estates tend to have tow-bar so have you/past owners done lots of towing ?

The only problem I did encounter with my G/Box operation once, approx. 6 years back now (I'd guess the mileage was then approx. 210k then) when I was struggling to change from 1st to 2nd gear to the extent I had to go from 1st to 3rd on some occasions !

So after a week or so persevering with the problem I decided to get it up on ramps to inspect the gear-shift to g/box cable operation which where all spot on at the gear-stick/shift end !

However on inspection of the other end of the cables (which connects to the spherical ball-joint/lever arm) on the g/box for the cable which solely operates the gear-changes for the 1st to 2nd change, I could see that the banjo connector which fits on the ball-joint/arm which has a female 'Snap on cup' feature was starting to tear out of the rubber moulded Banjo assembly, due to being seized which did end up being left on the ball-joint end of the gearbox/arm when removing the Banjo itself !

Note, it's a right devil to see that end of the cables with the Banjo connector on the end (Hence I asked what sort of garage are you using) as they may have easily over looked the actual problem/failure !
Also its an absolute ba$tard to change them in sit-tu due to access to them to unscrew the Banjo's off the end of the cable/rod, but do-able (As I had to change mine) !

There's just an M6 thread on the cable end with a 10mm A/F lock-nut which is locked up to the end of the Banjo shank !
The Bango's is a common PSA part, I did mine on a weekend (A Sunday afternoon) with no where open and thinking where the hell will I get one of these on a Sunday

Having looked at my spares stash of parts including engines/gearboxes I managed to remove an identical one from a 1.9 TD XUD unit from a Xara which luckily still had the gearbox and G/B linkage on it !

So having removed the donor part, I then removed the metal 'Snap-on cup' which had torn out of the old Banjo assy. due to be seized, I then clean up the surface of the spherical ball-end (on the arm) which had some slight surface corrosion (with smooth emery cloth) and then after screwing on the donor Banjo to the end of the cable/rod I filled the cavity of the 'Snap-on cap' with some copper slip prior to popping the Banjo assy. back onto the ball-end.

After a static trial gear change (1st to 2nd) this was to get the correct alignment of the Banjo to the ball-end on the arm I then locked off the Banjo assy. shank end with the lock nut !

After getting the vehicle off the ramps I took it for a test run, well the gear change was the best ever even better than before I had first had the car when I took ownership of it (Which was @ 168k) its never had any problems since

So summing up, IMHO I think its more than likely/possible that on your 2.5 TD , that when you were driving in second gear and then wanting to either change up or down that the female bonded in 'Snap-on cup' connection has simply failed with out any warning (Like I had) and has torn/pulled out hence giving you the symptoms or 'Being stuck in 2nd gear' !

If I can find the old part, (as I did keep it for ref./showing folk) I'll take a photo and post it up !

I hope the /\ is of help and that my analysis is correct for you problems to XM

Please report back with your findings (If the current garage is a bit iffy) get a second opinion from a reputable one armed with my suggestion

Good luck



XMX

EDIT:- I had a quick look for my old/failed 'Banjo ball-end connector', but no luck so in the mean time I found one on E-BAY just for pictorial purposes and you'd obviously need the correct one to suit you XM (If indeed this is the problem)
it's the one to R/H end the in E-bay link photo which has the locknut adjacent to the shank-end !

.

XMX.

That was a real case of a picture says a thousand words. I still haven't got a mental picture of what you mean...

I think you mean the cable end ferrule was breaking up.

Hi folks,

I finally managed to take a look at the car today after flu or a virus had laid me low. As you guys rightly said, the box is very sturdy and I was surprised myself that the indy (yes, actually a good cit indy I have used for years) had disgnosed a knackered gearbox.

Anyway, I jammed the clutch pedal down with a piece of plastic pipe. I then removed the junk (battery tray, battery, LHM tank, wheel etc and still couldn't see much!) However I did have access to the two gearbox cranked levers and after a bit of fiddling I found I could select all gears and neutral. I then asked a neighbour to operate the gear lever back and forth. It moved the large cranked lever through first / neutral / second when first pushed, but would not do it again in either direction. I thus conclude that the garage was wrong and its the cable / sleeve / those peculiar end connections (which were identified as a likely area of failure in an earlier posting above) requires replacement. Malcolm Lockwood is trying to source me a pair of new cables.

Fitting the parts is going to be a B******D as also mentioned by someone earlier as there is no room! (oh, I forgot, its a 2.5td, no need to mention lack of access then!)

Removed old RHS cable (transmits forward / aft movement of gear lever to gearbox) . I also can't remove the exhaust as one of the joints was welded over to avoid buying a new one when it leaked. Found cable snapped 8" from gearbox end Odd because its a very heavy duty cable and its always been very smooth to change gear. Very slight pressure required just before it failed, but nothing to speak of. I suspect it must have been very slighly kinked for ages and repetitive slight movement when changing gears eventually caused it to break. The reason that it would still move the RHS gearbox crank once is that the thick cable, in its sleeve, pushed the broken bit forward, but then could bot retract it nor push it forward again .I would also note that my gearbox is and always has been extremely smooth and I would rate it as being equal to or better than in any car I have ever driven - Its a shame the guys who did this gearbox didn't also do the electrics on the XM or they might have been more reliable!

I have ordered a new cable and wonder if I can get it back on with the exhaust still in place if not.I guess its angle grinder time!

Anyway, thanks everybody for your advice, particularly the very detailed contribution from XMX.

Hi Exem

Glad that you tracked it down to the broken cable.
Very useful description tying up symptoms to an unusual fault.

John

Please find attached a picture of the 8" of gearbox RHS cable nearest the gearbox where it snapped. The round end has a plastic cup in it which goes over the ball on the gearbox R/Angled crank.

Yep. That would do it.

At least it's good to know there is nothing wrong with the gearbox itself.