1996 2.1 estate on Car and Classic

[nirgunapa]

Having lurked around here for far too long I am really tempted by this one.

Anyone care to advise what to look for? Is the 2.5 better than a 2.1?



http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C100775/

Still waiting for the chap to get back to me following an email. Need to know about service history.

Colin

[Ken Newbold]

At 142K miles on a P reg auto, it could be coming up to headgasket time or gearbox time or both or neither if you were lucky.
Lets see what others think?

[andmcit]

With an autobox it's always going to end in tears!! OK, I'm only half kidding, but without any
history/evidence of vigilant (paranoid?) gear oil changes you're having a gamble on a car that
looks chunky in the £ department. The seller may have great sales patter but would need to
show more to justify the wedge.

Andrew

[Peter.N.]

I would agree, an auto box is the answer to those who don't want get in volved in the scrapping scheme Being a 'P' reg it will also have an EPIC pump, they are also designed to ruin an exceptionally good engine, and a passenger air bag, which means it doesn't have a glove box.

The 2.5 is nicer to drive, but in all other respects the 2.1 is a better engine.

Peter

[Ken Newbold]

Epic pump on a P, are you sure Peter? My bro in law has a P 2.1auto est and it's got the usual Bosch pump.
Having said that, it has had the headgasket done a short while ago.

[andmcit]

So, from a show of hands here, a MANUAL 2.5 then?

<<runs and hides!!>>

Actually, a petrol manual V6 - IF you can find one, that is...

Andrew

[robert_e_smart]

My P reg 2.1 auto has a Bosch pump as well.

[Peter.N.]

Does it? Very unusual, aren't you lucky.

A lot of strange things happened in '96, my first Jan '96 2.1 had a key pad - which is almost as bad as having an EPIC pump! Of the four YBL's I have had they have all had subtle differences. One of our members has a '95 reg that has an EPIC pump, I think it depends how long they sat in a field before they were sold.

Peter

[robertmnorton]

Hi Colin,as you can see opinnions differ somewhat over auto's and the epic fuel system.I run one of each ,a Bosch and an epic, both auto.My preference is the epic.The reason is the epic gives much improved cold star/run characteristics and improved driveability,it is also much sharper in response, but perhaps this is more down to set up of the pumps.The epic has no adjustments once the initial pump installation has been done.The electronics do the rest.The poor reputation of the epic (phase 1 in the xm) is difficult to qualify.I know colinxm retrofitted a bosch to replace an ailing epic but don't know the specifics.When i spoke to Turner Diesel last week,he said they had not had a phase 1 pump i for a long time, but invariably failure was excessive wear of the hp pump inner case.No way to check this unless there are particles in the filter/filter bowl or there are running problems.£600+ for overhaul.
The auto is in reality as good a g/box as any,it is fitted to a huge range of engine/chassis configurations but seems to have earned it's failure reputation from the "Q" variant,the fwd form.Again excessive wear in the clutches and valve block seem to be the main causes.In my case it was the valve block.Don't expect it to be the smoothest changing of auto's, a light but noticeable jump will take place on upshift.This according to zf is normal as there are no electronics coupled to the engine ecu to back off torque.Again the only real way to check g/box health is at the fluid drain, muddy coloured fluid,black sludge and metal particles in suspension will tell you fluid changes have been neglected.A test drive will give you a fair idea.Severe upshifts,delayed upshifts or whinning,walk away,£2200 in my case or an overhaul.Check the manual sequential change is also good, as in "drive" a faulty governor can give early upshifting and hunting between gears.This though is not an expensive fix and can be done in a couple of hours insitu by the autobox specialist.
If you are keen to get one then this one appears on the face of it to be an honest motor,and they are becoming more rare.I reckon it's worth an away day.And who knows it may be a gem.
Yes the glovebox is smaller,but it is cooled by the a/c so you chocy bar won't ooze all over it.
robertm

[Peter.N.]

My main beef about autos and EPIC's is not the way they peform but how much they cost when they don't!

Peter