My XM Ph.I - 2.0 C.T. Automatic - Premiere - MOT Failure

General information about upcoming maintenance, and other events which affect the forum.
MarkXM2.0C.T.
XM newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:00 pm

My XM Ph.I - 2.0 C.T. Automatic - Premiere - MOT Failure

Post by MarkXM2.0C.T. » Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:05 pm

Hi there,

I bought a Citroën XM 2.0 C.T. Automatic 'Premiere' about two months ago. A lovely car and I already had a number of great drives with it. However, next weekend the MOT is due and unfortunately it failed. It failed on quite a number of things. I will post the list here:
Image

I was told my the - friendly - garage that it could be written off. I am not really sure about that yet, but I'm quite concerned about the amount of work that seems to be necessary in order to get it going again. I mean, that some lights don't work doesn't really matter, but it is mainly the corrosion that is an issue. It is also possible that I would need two new headlights, but I should be able to find those on some scrapyard or maybe via this forum or something.
Anyways, I am hoping that someone here might be able to help me out. I'd like to prevent the car being sold as parts, especially since quite a lot of work on the engine has been done recently (by the previous owner).

Thanks,

Mark

User avatar
MTXM
Citroen God!
Posts: 4574
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2009 8:45 pm
Location: Aylsham Norfolk

Re: My XM Ph.I - 2.0 C.T. Automatic - Premiere - MOT Failure

Post by MTXM » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:19 pm

That is a bit of a list Mark and you must feel quite disheartened! The ABS fault may be a front sensor connection and if necessary the headlamps could be replaced as you suggest. On the headlamps I wonder if the dipped beam internal focusing fresnels have been removed to increase output? The corrosion issues are a bit more or a worry and especially to the seatbelt anchorages, but no doubt repairs are possible. The cv gaiter and suspension pipes should be quite easily sorted. Where exactly are you located, presumably in the UK? Regards, Matthew T.
1989 V6 Exclusive (Poland car)
1990 V6sei auto (grey auto)
1990 V6sei manual (gold car)
1990 V6.24 Pallas (Germany car)
1990 V6.24v (Scotland car)
1992 V6sei auto (blue auto)
Other previous XM sold and broken too many to mention!

citroenxm
Global Moderator
Posts: 7897
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:11 am
Location: North Wales - FAR far far away!!! :-p

Re: My XM Ph.I - 2.0 C.T. Automatic - Premiere - MOT Failure

Post by citroenxm » Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:53 pm

Pipe inapropiatley repaired!?? Really! Thats the first Ive even heard of that one!

ABS Lamp could be up for a number of reasons. If it simply doessnt flicker and go out then its not seeing one of the four sensors, either a connector, or broken cable to a sensor, however, if it goes out on startup but then comes on after a drive then theres something interfearing with a sensor tip! Not too hard to sort..

Headlamps, I doubt you will get in a scrap yard, but - being honest I have about 10 sets!

I wonder if the leaking pipes as its on both sides are simply the strut return pipes have split and leaking from strut return leak..

The floor rust/rot under the B pillars - as described as seat belt anchourage - are another common area for rot on XMs these days, and can useually be hidden by the underseal, and the metal useually disapears from behind the underseal..

It looks like a "Lot" of small issues to look like a massive headache...

We hope you do stick with, these are getting thin on the ground these days..
1990 H reg V6 24v Manual .. in progress.. on SORN
Projects:
92 Bx Txd Turbo
92 L Xm 2.1t D auto project
Others
55 C5 V6 24v Auto toy
54 Xsara picasso 2.0 8v Hdi
Shit thats scarey.. Two XMs left...

MarkXM2.0C.T.
XM newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: My XM Ph.I - 2.0 C.T. Automatic - Premiere - MOT Failure

Post by MarkXM2.0C.T. » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:10 pm

MTXM wrote:That is a bit of a list Mark and you must feel quite disheartened! The ABS fault may be a front sensor connection and if necessary the headlamps could be replaced as you suggest. On the headlamps I wonder if the dipped beam internal focusing fresnels have been removed to increase output? The corrosion issues are a bit more or a worry and especially to the seatbelt anchorages, but no doubt repairs are possible. The cv gaiter and suspension pipes should be quite easily sorted. Where exactly are you located, presumably in the UK? Regards, Matthew T.
Hi Matthew,

Thank you for your kind reply! And yes, I felt terrible when I heard the news and I still struggle with it. I mean, it causes such a dilemma; will I just not bother about the money and get the car fixed? Or is that really the wisest thing to do?
Your point about that removal makes sense, since I heard of the previous owner that he changed something to increase the output; that might be it. I will ask him.
I am located in Eastbourne. That might indeed be relevant, since it felt like the garage I went to (the people there were very nice actually) didn't really know what to do with an XM; one of the things I am hoping for is to find someone who is good with XM's, but won't charge that much. But that's probably something we all share as XM drivers, I guess. :)

MarkXM2.0C.T.
XM newbie
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:00 pm

Re: My XM Ph.I - 2.0 C.T. Automatic - Premiere - MOT Failure

Post by MarkXM2.0C.T. » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:16 pm

citroenxm wrote:Pipe inapropiatley repaired!?? Really! Thats the first Ive even heard of that one!

ABS Lamp could be up for a number of reasons. If it simply doessnt flicker and go out then its not seeing one of the four sensors, either a connector, or broken cable to a sensor, however, if it goes out on startup but then comes on after a drive then theres something interfearing with a sensor tip! Not too hard to sort..

Headlamps, I doubt you will get in a scrap yard, but - being honest I have about 10 sets!

I wonder if the leaking pipes as its on both sides are simply the strut return pipes have split and leaking from strut return leak..

The floor rust/rot under the B pillars - as described as seat belt anchourage - are another common area for rot on XMs these days, and can useually be hidden by the underseal, and the metal useually disapears from behind the underseal..

It looks like a "Lot" of small issues to look like a massive headache...

We hope you do stick with, these are getting thin on the ground these days..
Hi, thanks for your reply.

@ your first remark: yes, that surprised me too; if it works, it works, right?
Re: ABS; it is just constantly lit.

New headlamps would sound like a good solution, however from what I saw on Ebay is that there are only a few of them available and that they do not come cheap (>100 GBP each).
So the rust sounds to you like something that can be fairly easily fixed?

And regarding your last sentence: thanks, haha, that doesn't make the decision easier! I mean, I know, that's why I would like to cherish it and that is one of the reasons why I bought it anyway, but it feels like it's getting a bit too much at the moment.

citroenxm
Global Moderator
Posts: 7897
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:11 am
Location: North Wales - FAR far far away!!! :-p

Re: My XM Ph.I - 2.0 C.T. Automatic - Premiere - MOT Failure

Post by citroenxm » Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:31 pm

I have headlights.. mine certainly are not 100 each.. more like 25 quid or so each..

So the abs ecu is not seeing one of the 4 sensors for one reason or another.. corroded plugs or a break in a wire...
1990 H reg V6 24v Manual .. in progress.. on SORN
Projects:
92 Bx Txd Turbo
92 L Xm 2.1t D auto project
Others
55 C5 V6 24v Auto toy
54 Xsara picasso 2.0 8v Hdi
Shit thats scarey.. Two XMs left...

Dieselman
Global Moderator
Posts: 10469
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:44 pm

Re: My XM Ph.I - 2.0 C.T. Automatic - Premiere - MOT Failure

Post by Dieselman » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:21 pm

Does the ABS light being constantly iluminated meand a sensor fault, or a power to the ABS unit issue, in which case it is likely to be a cracked solder joint on the relay holder on the ABS unit.
1992 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
1992 2.1SD M.RP 5685 in ENT Blue Sideral
Previous:
1990 2.1SD M.RP 5049 in EJV Mandarin
1992 2.1SD A.RP 5698 in EJV Mandarin
1994 2.1SD A.RP 6218 in ERT Triton Green
1991 2.0SI M.RP 5187 in EWT White

xmexclusive
Global Moderator
Posts: 5451
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:11 am

Re: My XM Ph.I - 2.0 C.T. Automatic - Premiere - MOT Failure

Post by xmexclusive » Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:55 pm

The MOT test rules are specific about brake pipe repairs.
The use of "conex" type joints with loose olives is not permitted on any hydraulic brake line.
These have been sold on ebay for Citroen pipes in recent times including supply by some Citroen Indys.
The exact wording specified for this type of illegal joint is as has been used on the failure list.
This type of joint MUST be failed even if it is not leaking.
Leaking pipes or joints will be reported as a separate failure item.
It may well be that the leaks and the "illegal" joints are one and the same but have generated 4 separate failure items.
If this is the case there are just two joints to replace with an approved repair.

The rusty front sub-frame might be a problem.
I have had this once previously as a MOT failure.
The tester advised that he would not pass on retest the car with a weld repaired subframe.
He classed the sub-frame as a suspension component.
Weld repair of suspension components is not permitted and if found is a mandatory failure item.

The headlights should be a minor item, could just be bulbs not seated correctly.
But if there is a suspicion they have been modified then a secondhand set may be the quickest fix.

It may be best to find a Citroen Indy with XM experience to quote for repairs and obtaining an MOT.
I can provide details of one along the coast just in Hampshire if you send me a PM(personal message).

John

Dieselman
Global Moderator
Posts: 10469
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:44 pm

Re: My XM Ph.I - 2.0 C.T. Automatic - Premiere - MOT Failure

Post by Dieselman » Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:00 pm

xmexclusive wrote: The rusty front sub-frame might be a problem.
I have had this once previously as a MOT failure.
The tester advised that he would not pass on retest the car with a weld repaired subframe.
He classed the sub-frame as a suspension component.
Weld repair of suspension components is not permitted and if found is a mandatory failure item.
That sounds incorrect. Most supframe rust is the closing plate on the bottom, which is common on many makes of car and some manufacturers even supply replacement plates to weld in.

A subframe is not a suspension component.
1992 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
1992 2.1SD M.RP 5685 in ENT Blue Sideral
Previous:
1990 2.1SD M.RP 5049 in EJV Mandarin
1992 2.1SD A.RP 5698 in EJV Mandarin
1994 2.1SD A.RP 6218 in ERT Triton Green
1991 2.0SI M.RP 5187 in EWT White

xmexclusive
Global Moderator
Posts: 5451
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:11 am

Re: My XM Ph.I - 2.0 C.T. Automatic - Premiere - MOT Failure

Post by xmexclusive » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:23 am

I agree I have overstated the weld repair issue.
Weld repair is not permitted on highly stressed components.
In 2.4.G.1 and its appendices sub-frames are specifically mentioned as a suspension component requiring examination.
Testers are advised that thin higher strength steel pressings may be used and small amounts of rust may seriously weaken.
As far as I know Citroen do not supply sub-frame repair plates for the XM so proving the correct grade of steel has been used is difficult.

The point I was trying to make, probably badly, is that the garage seem to consider the car only fit for scrap.
I think that makes sending the repaired car back there for retest a bit of a lottery unless a clear understanding on what is needed is reached first with the tester.
At present he has seen a car with obvious faults ignored and bodged repairs.
The tester may not have hydraulic Citroen experience.
He might not like cars which drip LHM and make his test floor slippery.
Consider what he found:
Non working light bulbs:
Leaking brake pipes with non permitted repair unions;
ABS clearly defective;
Rust holes in critical areas.
Would you let a close family member drive a car in this state for the next 12 months.

Quite a few of us might take on such a car and correct the faults.
That needs some experience.
Hence my suggestion of a Citroen Indy to assess and cost the work.
It will not be cheap but the work will include getting the MOT.

As we saw recently with Ray Fry's 2.1 the Citroen Indy route provides quick answers even if the results are unpalatable.
It avoids significant expenditure on repairs that still do not end up with a car fit for the road.

John

Post Reply