Chris's BX

The place to show off and tell us all about your XMs (or even other cars). Should it be a big project, or just some general pics, start your thread in here.
Dieselman
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Re: Chris's BX

Post by Dieselman » Sun May 09, 2021 5:30 am

Some nice mods there. Changing the indicator bulbs to LED is on my Xm list, but access to the flasher relay is very awkward.
Where did you source the orange and red lamps? White ones are too bright for the coloured lamp units, so would need colouring anyway.
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White Exec
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Re: Chris's BX - exterior lighting

Post by White Exec » Sun May 09, 2021 9:54 am

Hi Will,

Wanted to add a bit of extra punch to the rather 'soft' exterior lighting on the BX, particularly the indicators when seen in bright sunlight. All the OE bulbs were BA15s (P21...) base - 5W and 21W. Wanted not to alter the lampholders, but stick with the originals.

Did a good bit of experimentation, but found that
- most automotive 'white' LEDs of very high brightness are cool white (bluish)
- this cool white does unpleasant things to the colour of amber and red signals, and doesn't IMO sit nicely alongside halogens

Concluded that amber turn signals needed yellow-orange LEDs behind them, and that tail/stop/RR fog needed red ones.
Reversing lights (clear or smoky) were acceptable with cool white (4000K+) lamps, where brightness seemed more important than near-original colour.
For other white lights (eg front sidelights), personal preference was for Warm White (c.3000K), to match the appearance of the halogen headlights.

Indicators
Chose these - BA15s, in yellow-amber
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001123 ... 4c4dbZlDBD

Needed to change the flasher relay for a load-independent one, and used this one, which is sold everywhere:
type CF14JL-02
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Yizhet-Electro ... 545&sr=8-1

Connections to this are straightforward: +12 in [+B], Gnd [-E], and Load [L] (all indicators, repeaters and dash lights) out.
Pin positions may differ from the OE installed relay, so check. I used some short intermediate wires with 0.25" connectors.

Really pleased with the indicators now: bright and crisp.

The improved indicators called out for the rest of the rear cluster lamps to be looked at . . .

Brake lights - BA15s in red
Initially tried these. Hopeless - very short life (about 2-3 days). From Amazon, although sold elsewhere too, where (I discover) the blurb suggests that are "only suitable" for indicator use (intermittent, and presumably USA red ones). 144smd, but useless, pulling 21W apiece, and running untouchably hot. Many complaints. Returned mine and refunded. These were the offending ones...
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Signals-144SMD ... 238&sr=8-6 Don't buy!

Switched to these, instead. Also 1500lm*** red, and seem to be working fine:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3272652 ... 4c4dbZlDBD

Rear fogs
These same 1500lm*** reds might/might not be ok for the continuous-operation RR fogs too, so am holding off until those in the brake lights have proved themselves.

Rear tail lights - BA15s red
Bought these
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001123 ... 4c4dYGkB9b
a while back (along with some yellow and white ones of the same type) to experiment with.
Sloppy spec says 1000lm for them all, which just wasn't the case.
Yellow AOK for indicators, and White was bright, but too cold/blue for use.
Red, however, was decidedly not bright, but ideal for 5W tail-light replacement, which is where they've gone.

Reversing lights
John had experimented with bright LEDs for XM reversing lights, and I followed him a couple of years ago with these (BA15s type):
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3266348 ... 163fAsrDE8
which have been (and remain) superb.
Currently, a couple of spares of these are in the BX reversing lights. As I have the (Mk1) clear RR fittings, they are bright - very bright. Might wind down a bit with some others.

Hope of some use, Will.
.
DSCF3871r.jpg
DSCF3869pr.jpg
^^ The pinkish look to the brake light is just the camera having trouble with red high brightness; in reality it's all standard red.

Picking LED replacements - brightness
For comparison:
BA15s 12v 5w tungsten bulb = 50 lm
BA15s 12v 21w ditto = 460 lm .

*** If AliExpress is anything to go by, many vendors list colour alternatives (eg red, yellow, white) for a given lamp.
However, only one Lumens output is usually quoted, and I'm guessing this is for the white one.
One order I received had all three colours in it. The red was much dimmer. Was consigned to tail lamp use (see above).
Ali's shop windows are principally designed to sell, of course. Be prepared for a few disappointments for items not used before; at least the cost is not excessive, even though the wait for delivery might be.
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Last edited by White Exec on Mon May 10, 2021 6:22 am, edited 3 times in total.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

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Re: Chris's BX

Post by djg » Sun May 09, 2021 4:38 pm

I can also vouch for MAXGTRS' Cree LEDs. Mine are different than the ones you show, maybe no longer available but very nice, still going strong.
p21w-cree.jpg
We still have stupid regulations that don't allow LEDs for exterior use (well, they allow if the car was originally fitted with them, just that you're not allowed to replace to a different technology if not). I decided to ignore it for the reversing lights that are really poor on the XM but, you know, I'm more and more tempted with the rest. :-)

No. I also changed the sidelights to some COB-style LEDs...
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Bye,
Gábor

1996 XM 2.5 Turbo D VSX (LHD, Bleu Mauritius)
1986 BX 19 TRI Break (LHD, Rouge Vallelunga) deceased
1996 AX 14 D (LHD, Alaska White) in family

Dieselman
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Re: Chris's BX

Post by Dieselman » Sun May 09, 2021 5:09 pm

djg wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:38 pm

We still have stupid regulations that don't allow LEDs for exterior use (well, they allow if the car was originally fitted with them, just that you're not allowed to replace to a different technology if not). I decided to ignore it for the reversing lights that are really poor on the XM but, you know, I'm more and more tempted with the rest. :-)

Are those regulations applicable to all exterior lamps, or just headlamps? I wasn't aware any EU regulation applied to retro fitting LED lamps into housings designed for incandescent ones other than headlamps, which cast a beam, so need the light source and reflecor to be designed for each other.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
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Re: Chris's BX

Post by White Exec » Sun May 09, 2021 7:18 pm

Have been impressed with the quality of stuff from MAXGTRS, who seem to major on CREE.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

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Re: Chris's BX

Post by djg » Mon May 10, 2021 12:17 am

No, the regulation doesn't say you're not allowed to use LEDs. Only that you have to have ECE approval and, simply, you can't buy any LED retrofit bulb that's approved, it's that simple. :-) Osram and Philips, as well as ADAC and similar have been pushing for the appropriate EU regulation leading to possible approval for some years now but not yet there. DRLs and foglights can be bought with ECE approval, so they are possible. But for the rest, sidelights, indicators, reversing and others, you can't buy approved ones.

Actually, now that I looked for it, NIGHT BREAKER H7-LED is the first one actually approved for Germany, with a specific compatiblity list that only includes Jumper from Citroën, LHD only, you have to check the actual numbers on the headlight housing to see if it's applicable to yours. It might come some time but slowly.
Bye,
Gábor

1996 XM 2.5 Turbo D VSX (LHD, Bleu Mauritius)
1986 BX 19 TRI Break (LHD, Rouge Vallelunga) deceased
1996 AX 14 D (LHD, Alaska White) in family

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White Exec
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Re: Chris's BX

Post by White Exec » Mon May 10, 2021 7:13 am

Just a thought about XM rear lights...

The lower red ones (tail, brake, RR fog) are all very much wide oblong lenses, and many of the brighter LED direct replacements have a lens fitted into their ends, to direct light powerfully forward. This might produce an unwanted red hot-spot on these lights, rather than an evenly bright illumination of the fitting. Cob-type LED without end lens might be more suitable for these, or the LED lens might possibly need 'frosting' (diffusing).

I haven't tried any of this on XM. Only use, so far, has been in the small reversing lights.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

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Re: Chris's BX

Post by djg » Mon May 10, 2021 10:51 am

I've seen variants that solve this issue, at least supposedly:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32960294116.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000683091328.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33025510251.html

But I haven't actually tried any of those, for the reasons above.
Bye,
Gábor

1996 XM 2.5 Turbo D VSX (LHD, Bleu Mauritius)
1986 BX 19 TRI Break (LHD, Rouge Vallelunga) deceased
1996 AX 14 D (LHD, Alaska White) in family

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White Exec
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Posts: 6642
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
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Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Chris's BX

Post by White Exec » Mon May 10, 2021 12:21 pm

That's interesting, Gabor.
High power, but without the top smd's. Got me looking again. Have bookmarked them.

First two are Amber only 1200lm and 2100lm :!: respectively.
That second one says 2.12A and 34W. Heat!?

Good many of these high power items are only intended for Direction Indicator use, presumably because they are not continuously rated. Explains the Amber only, in many cases.

Last one is 1200lm, but "30W".
Hopelessly vague specs. Wattages might be actual, or "tungsten equivalent" (eg the "100W" ones we've successfully used for reversing lights) . . . and lord knows what the W and lm figures mean for the red, white and yellow. Cannot all be the same.

Anyway, the blank tops offer a good way of preventing a hot-spot on the car's lens.
Rear fogs present a bit of a challenge: high output needed, but continuous rating...
_______

Have noted that there is no such limitation of rating (and high brightness) from "commercial" downlighter LEDs (eg MR16 12v bi-pin type). These are readily available in warm white, and work quite happily on 12v dc as well as the more usual 12v ac. Heat and life never a problem. Have tried dismantling one, but the smd(s) sit on a small alu base-plate, which gets stonking hot when operated without the rest of the lamp present.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

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Re: Chris's BX

Post by djg » Mon May 10, 2021 8:58 pm

Oh, those. The main lamp in my room has four of these, still halogen, probably the only non-LED left. I already tried several times to look for replacement but all seem to be deeper than my available space (unless to dim). It was an IKEA lamp but I don't recall the name.

It took some time but I googled it: IKEA Beryll.
S_84.jpg
I don't want to replace it, so it stays halogen...

By the way, this isn't automotive but I had consistently good experience with LED bulbs bought at IKEA. I don't recall any of them dying yet.
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Bye,
Gábor

1996 XM 2.5 Turbo D VSX (LHD, Bleu Mauritius)
1986 BX 19 TRI Break (LHD, Rouge Vallelunga) deceased
1996 AX 14 D (LHD, Alaska White) in family

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