XM V6 Sei finally going for restoration

[citroenxm]

Yaaay.. annellls are good guys. They will have her sorted.

[Dieselman]

Barry and Peter should have no trouble with your job, they are long time Citroen mechanics.
I trust there is a free retest period.

I would strongly advise fitting genuine Citroen steering rack gaiters, or other quality brand thermoplastic ones, not universal neoprene ones that most parts suppliers stock...unless you want to do the job again in two years time.
P/n's 406629, 406630, 406621. Drivers side, passenger side, inner ball cover.

Ignoring the very easy stuff, I thought I would add a bit more detail.

The front brake pipes are standard DIN fitment pipes, not Citroen flares.
Brake flexis...easy.

Centre pipe leaking, either fit new pipe complete, or splice in a repair.

A spliced repair doesn't have to be Citroen flare, it can be DIN, or SAE, as long as the joint is mechanically connected and hydraulically sound. You can't use fittings relying on olives to grip the pipe, as they can slip off.

As said, the rusty subframe bolts will be the head of the bolt only and will only be surface rust. Citroen bolts are all well protected by electroplating.

The complete steering rack removal process:
1. Raise car, undo steering rack bolts, lower rear of subframe. Disconnect steering track rod ends from wheel bearing housings. (On manual gearbox cars unbolt the gear linkage from the rack housing)
2. Disconnect high and low pressure hydraulic connections via the passenger wheelarch.
3. Unclip the pinnion valve heat shield by reaching round the valve with left hand (right hand on Lhd cars). Retain wire clip. Push the heat shield up into the cavity and secure it there. The heat shield cannot come out past the rack, nor go back in past it, so keep it in place but out of the way.
4. Undo pinnion valve to column joint clamp and pry apart.
5. Push subframe down and wiggle rack out of drivers side wheelarch.

Gaiters can be fitted once the track rod is disconnected from the passenger side, but as the pinnion valve requires work, it's easier to strip the rack down and feed the rack shaft out of the passenger side.
To remove track rod on drivers side, remove pinnion valve, move rack to expose toothed section, grip toothed section with smooth adjustable spanner (don't use anyhting that could mark the shaft as it runs in bearings), unscrew inner ball joint.

I actually doubt you need a replacement rack at all as the pinnion valve seals are just regular lip seals and are available either as a citroen kit, or from a local seals stockist.. Citroen seal kit P/no 4048 Q8.

Refitting the rack is the reverse of removal with one caveat.
The steering column has no keyway onto the pinnion valve, which is likely to have changed position anyway as part of the strip/rebuild process.
this means the steering wheel and rack need to be centered again, which can take a few attempts to align the correct splines. Mount the rack, count the turns to each lock, reset if not equal. It's not hard, just fiddly.
If possible avoid undoing the pinnion valve pipes that use banjo bolts and crush washers, as it can be difficult to get a seal when refitting. The pinnion valve can be removed with the pipes still attached by turning the body.

As already said, it is possible to replace the pinnion valve outer seal without removing the rack, via the drivers footwell. Remove the bottom of the column and pinnion valve connector and go through there, but as gaiters are required also, I would take the rack out, as fitting the gaiters in situ is a bit of a struggle and takes quite a while.

Steering rack on V6 post. It's not in depth, but covers the main points. It's in the linked post, about half way down.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8535&start=220#p113383

Member, Dean, did his without moving the subframe at all. His car was a 2.0 turbo, so slightly different, possibly worse than a V6, though moving the exhaust will be easier.
viewtopic.php?t=15

[Dieselman]

I also spoke to Pleaides and they said they didn’t do anything on the rack, as it wasn’t leaking when they looked at it?

Hmm.
What did it say on the invoice?
Seems strange. No fault found, car transported away, then brought back having not turned a wheel, then they fail the Mot test on the very item and refuse to do the work.
I think performing an Mot test when they already knew they had work to perform is sharp practice, as you have now made two payments and are no further forwards.
If the above is correct it might be worth asking for some compensation...maybe having some spheres gassed at no cost.

[dcz1643]

Barry and Peter should have no trouble with your job, they are long time Citroen mechanics.
I trust there is a free retest period.

I would strongly advise fitting genuine Citroen steering rack gaiters, or other quality brand thermoplastic ones, not universal neoprene ones that most parts suppliers stock...unless you want to do the job again in two years time.
P/n's 406629, 406630, 406621. Drivers side, passenger side, inner ball cover.

Ignoring the very easy stuff, I thought I would add a bit more detail.

The front brake pipes are standard DIN fitment pipes, not Citroen flares.
Brake flexis...easy.

Centre pipe leaking, either fit new pipe complete, or splice in a repair.

A spliced repair doesn't have to be Citroen flare, it can be DIN, or SAE, as long as the joint is mechanically connected and hydraulically sound. You can't use fittings relying on olives to grip the pipe, as they can slip off.

As said, the rusty subframe bolts will be the head of the bolt only and will only be surface rust. Citroen bolts are all well protected by electroplating.

The complete steering rack removal process:
1. Raise car, undo steering rack bolts, lower rear of subframe. Disconnect steering track rod ends from wheel bearing housings. (On manual gearbox cars unbolt the gear linkage from the rack housing)
2. Disconnect high and low pressure hydraulic connections via the passenger wheelarch.
3. Unclip the pinnion valve heat shield by reaching round the valve with left hand (right hand on Lhd cars). Retain wire clip. Push the heat shield up into the cavity and secure it there. The heat shield cannot come out past the rack, nor go back in past it, so keep it in place but out of the way.
4. Undo pinnion valve to column joint clamp and pry apart.
5. Push subframe down and wiggle rack out of drivers side wheelarch.

Gaiters can be fitted once the track rod is disconnected from the passenger side, but as the pinnion valve requires work, it's easier to strip the rack down and feed the rack shaft out of the passenger side.
To remove track rod on drivers side, remove pinnion valve, move rack to expose toothed section, grip toothed section with smooth adjustable spanner (don't use anyhting that could mark the shaft as it runs in bearings), unscrew inner ball joint.

I actually doubt you need a replacement rack at all as the pinnion valve seals are just regular lip seals and are available either as a citroen kit, or from a local seals stockist.. Citroen seal kit P/no 4048 Q8.

Refitting the rack is the reverse of removal with one caveat.
The steering column has no keyway onto the pinnion valve, which is likely to have changed position anyway as part of the strip/rebuild process.
this means the steering wheel and rack need to be centered again, which can take a few attempts to align the correct splines. Mount the rack, count the turns to each lock, reset if not equal. It's not hard, just fiddly.
If possible avoid undoing the pinnion valve pipes that use banjo bolts and crush washers, as it can be difficult to get a seal when refitting. The pinnion valve can be removed with the pipes still attached by turning the body.

As already said, it is possible to replace the pinnion valve outer seal without removing the rack, via the drivers footwell. Remove the bottom of the column and pinnion valve connector and go through there, but as gaiters are required also, I would take the rack out, as fitting the gaiters in situ is a bit of a struggle and takes quite a while.

Steering rack on V6 post. It's not in depth, but covers the main points. It's in the linked post, about half way down.
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=8535&start=220#p113383

Member, Dean, did his without moving the subframe at all. His car was a 2.0 turbo, so slightly different, possibly worse than a V6, though moving the exhaust will be easier.
viewtopic.php?t=15

Wow, thank you for this. It is so detailed I am tempted to do the job myself. Although we have now arranged to have the car taken to Barry, so I will stick with that option for now. I am concerned about cost, I don’t have bottomless pockets but we are so far along with this now, it needs to be finished. It’s going over something next week, Barry said he is very busy so it could be a little while before he looks at it but he wasn’t fazed by the list of failures. Cheers…Derek

[dcz1643]

I also spoke to Pleaides and they said they didn’t do anything on the rack, as it wasn’t leaking when they looked at it?

Hmm.
What did it say on the invoice?
Seems strange. No fault found, car transported away, then brought back having not turned a wheel, then they fail the Mot test on the very item and refuse to do the work.
I think performing an Mot test when they already knew they had work to perform is sharp practice, as you have now made two payments and are no further forwards.
If the above is correct it might be worth asking for some compensation...maybe having some spheres gassed at no cost.

That’s a good question, as I said most of the time it is not me speaking to them, so I don’t know what was said. Peter has the invoice, he is keeping all of the paperwork for me, so I will ask him to send me a copy. You are right about the transport, it has now been taken to them twice and still it is not sorted. I am very fortunate that Peter had his own transporter and I only pay for diesel, otherwise that would be costing a fortune as well. I will give this a closer look. Out of interest the MOT was £48, which I think is the top end of the chargeable fee

[citroenxm]

48 is cheap.. mot fees are garage discression. My garage changes average 55 but me 45 ... so its up to them .. I think they are set a minimum by the government though.

[dcz1643]

48 is cheap.. mot fees are garage discression. My garage changes average 55 but me 45 ... so its up to them .. I think they are set a minimum by the government though.

You are probably right my garage charged me £45 recently, for my Ford Explorer. They charged me £40 last year for tests, I don’t know if that’s because I take 5 cars a year to them

[Dieselman]

The legal maximum charge for an Mot test is £54.68, there is no minimum charge, but the test does cost the test centre, so they will at least want to cover that.
The test centre can charge anything upto that figure.

[Dieselman]

Wow, thank you for this. It is so detailed I am tempted to do the job myself. Although we have now arranged to have the car taken to Barry, so I will stick with that option for now. I am concerned about cost, I don’t have bottomless pockets but we are so far along with this now, it needs to be finished. It’s going over something next week, Barry said he is very busy so it could be a little while before he looks at it but he wasn’t fazed by the list of failures. Cheers…Derek

Barry is busy, you need to get the car back in time for your free retest, you have a good friend that would like to spend some time with you...car time...beer time.
Order your steering rack gaiters and pinnion seals, (you might not need the passenger side ball cover, they last very well), stuff your overalls and a crate of beer into your car and go and spend some bonding time with Peter.
If necessary, obtain a known good s/h rack to stuff in, then you can rebuild yours at your leisure.

Once again, we see that spending money on labour to fix an Xm is a fools errand. Spend your money on parts, save the labour cost and learn about your car in the process. There is nothing you can't fix yourself on an Xm.
A Citroen/Peugeot/Fiat/Vauxhall dealer might be able to supply the parts quickly.

As an aside, for the parking brake, it is possible the cable has jumped out of the operating lever on the brake caliper due to being too slack. If so, using mole grips operate the lever and refit the cable nipple, then adjust the cable so it has a little less slack, so the cable can't jump out again.
If the cable has come off at the equaliser it will just push back in and clip in, once released from the caliper.

Xm are easy to work on if you think how they were built on the assembly line. Each task was performed in only a few seconds and items like cable connections have guides to make them clip together straight away with a single push.

All the underbody components were built as one module carried on front and rear subframes. This module was then lifted under the car and bolted in place.
To gain access, just unbolt and lower the subframe and all is available.

Watch this video to see how an Xm was built. A powertrain goes in at 2:14.
The Rennes factory was the most advanced and robotised car plant in the world, which is how a complex car is built for less cost...less labour.
Even the headlamp aim and wheel alignment was set by robot.

[dcz1643]

Wow, thank you for this. It is so detailed I am tempted to do the job myself. Although we have now arranged to have the car taken to Barry, so I will stick with that option for now. I am concerned about cost, I don’t have bottomless pockets but we are so far along with this now, it needs to be finished. It’s going over something next week, Barry said he is very busy so it could be a little while before he looks at it but he wasn’t fazed by the list of failures. Cheers…Derek

Barry is busy, you need to get the car back in time for your free retest, you have a good friend that would like to spend some time with you...car time...beer time.
Order your steering rack gaiters and pinnion seals, (you might not need the passenger side ball cover, they last very well), stuff your overalls and a crate of beer into your car and go and spend some bonding time with Peter.
If necessary, obtain a known good s/h rack to stuff in, then you can rebuild yours at your leisure.

Once again, we see that spending money on labour to fix an Xm is a fools errand. Spend your money on parts, save the labour cost and learn about your car in the process. There is nothing you can't fix yourself on an Xm.
A Citroen/Peugeot/Fiat/Vauxhall dealer might be able to supply the parts quickly.

As an aside, for the handbrake, it is possible the cable has jumped out of the operating lever on the brake caliper due to being too slack. If so, using mole grips operate the lever and refit the cable nipple, then adjust the cable so it has a little less slack, so the cable can't jump out again.
If the cable has come off at the equaliser it will just push back in and clip in, once released from the caliper.

Xm are easy to work on if you think how they were built on the assembly line. Each task was performed in only a few seconds and items like cable connections have guides to make them clip together straight away with a single push.

All the underbody components were built as one module carried on front and rear subframes. This module was then lifted under the car and bolted in place.
To gain access, just unbolt and lower the subframe and all is available.

Watch this video to see how an Xm was built. A powertrain goes in at 2:14.
The Rennes factory was the most advanced and robotised car plant in the world, which is how a complex car is built for less cost...less labour.
Even the headlamp aim and wheel alignment was set by robot.

Thanks for this, some well made points. I am not sure Peter wants to tackle the work in his garage, as he has other projects he needs to move on to. I completely understand about not paying for Labour and to be fair, once the car is back, I will be doing everything myself. As I have said before, I have been working on cars since I was 17 and that was a long time ago. The problem at the moment is that things haven’t gone the way I would have liked and it just need to get the car through a test and then home. There will still be plenty to do when it finally comes home and I really appreciate all of the advice and support from you guys. Cheers, I will keep the thread updated, when I have news.