Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

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russ92xmsed
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:07 pm

Just to clarify how the modification should be done. I have done this, but why the reversing lights are getting power without anything connected is odd.

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Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
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2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
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White Exec
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:30 pm

I have tried to pull out the Cit circuit diagram for your (originally Auto) RP5712, but I haven't anything older than circuits for RP6383 onwards.
Reversing light info appears in sections 54 and 59.
John might be able to help here, if he's able to access the info.

This diag (544-1/20, so a later RP) looks fairly typical, though:
544-1_20a Reverse lights.JPG
#216 is the Auto gear selector switch, #314 is the manual 'box Reverse light switch.

What I suggest you do is
- disconnect the connector to the new Rev light sw
- disconnect the connector to the old Auto gear selector switch (I presume this connector is still there, but just dangling somewhere)
With this done, the Rev lights should be off.

If they're not, there is a very basic wiring error somewhere (or short) bringing the Rev lights on when you turn on the IGN, which will need tracking down and sorting.

If the Rev lights are off ok as above,
- take the 2-pin connector to your new box sw (#314), and bridge the two female connectors together
- find the IGN sw +12 feed at the old Auto selector connector (comes from F19 in the diag above, but yours'll be different, I bet)
(This should light a test lamp whenever the IGN sw is turned fully on) and try connecting it to each of the other connections* at the old Auto selector switch (#216). One of these should light up the Rev lamps.
(*If you want to play safe here, instead of connecting a piece of wire, connect through an old H1 headlight bulb; if you were to hit a Gnd connection, the worst that could happen is that the H1 would light up full brightness. If you strike lucky and find the wire that leads to the Rev lights, both the H1 AND the Rev lights will light, but a bit dimly.)

When you've found the connection that brings on the Rev lights, join it permanently to the +12 IGN sw supply wire.

With IGN on, Rev lights should be on.
If you pull the temp bridge connection at the 'box sw, the lights should go out.
Re-connect to the 'box switch, and try it.

If the lights don't work with Rev engaged, the new 'box switch isn't doing its stuff, either mechanically (plunger action) or electrically.
If the Rev lights stay on now, whether reverse is selected or not, then it's just possible that the new rev light sw might need not screwing in as far, because it is being prematurely held On. A washer or two could be placed under it to hold the setting, and make it oil-tight. This really shouldn't be necessary if the new switch iplunger/body is physically the same dimensions as the old one.

Hmmm. That's what I'd be doing.
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Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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White Exec
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Fri Aug 10, 2018 3:39 pm

Hi Russ,

My post (diagram) overlapped with yours.

What you've done looks absolutely right - simply substituting the new switch for the old (8-9) one. Should work.

What you need to do first is to disconnect BOTH old and new switches from the system, and if the Rev lights are still on then, something quite separate is going on. Try that.

C.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:36 pm

Thanks very much Chris for your explanations.

I think from what is going on, there must be a short or a power feed direct to the Rev lights.

At the moment, the wires 8&9 are not connected to anything and are isolated. Yet the Rev lights still come on when the ignition is on.

What is very frustrating is that none of the wiring any where else has been touched.
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:14 pm

I think all you can do is work backwards (which means forwards) from the reverse lights, and see where they're getting their power from. Pain.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by djg » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:48 pm

Russ, I'd start with the fuse, F19. What happens when you remove it? If the light stays on you know you have a wrong feed from another circuit. If it goes out, the circuit itself is probably right from the fuse. Then you should check the connectors in route.
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:26 pm

Thanks for that advice. I tried it and on mine it's fuse 23. The lights go out when it's removed. So therefore it must be a fault before the fuse? Which means its in the engine bay, and most likely to do with the inhibitor wiring. That narrows it down... sort of!
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by misha » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:45 pm

russ92xmsed wrote:Thanks very much Chris for your explanations.

I think from what is going on, there must be a short or a power feed direct to the Rev lights.

At the moment, the wires 8&9 are not connected to anything and are isolated. Yet the Rev lights still come on when the ignition is on.

What is very frustrating is that none of the wiring any where else has been touched.
On some cars,reversing lights will be permanently ON when the wiring/connector is disconnected from the reverse light switch.
The other thing that it could be is that the wiring for reverse lights is shorted somewhere.
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'97 Volvo 850 2.5 20v/fully equipped/motronic 4.4/polar white wagon

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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by xantia_v6 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:28 pm

russ92xmsed wrote:Thanks for that advice. I tried it and on mine it's fuse 23. The lights go out when it's removed. So therefore it must be a fault before the fuse? Which means its in the engine bay, and most likely to do with the inhibitor wiring. That narrows it down... sort of!
No, it just means that the fuse is between the battery and the bulbs. The fault is almost certainly downstream of the fuse, as the fuse is before the switch in the circuit.
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:39 pm

xantia_v6 wrote:
russ92xmsed wrote:Thanks for that advice. I tried it and on mine it's fuse 23. The lights go out when it's removed. So therefore it must be a fault before the fuse? Which means its in the engine bay, and most likely to do with the inhibitor wiring. That narrows it down... sort of!
No, it just means that the fuse is between the battery and the bulbs. The fault is almost certainly downstream of the fuse, as the fuse is before the switch in the circuit.
Thanks Chris. Had a feeling it wouldn't be that obvious.
White Exec wrote:Fuse numbers/functions did vary across models and over time. They were constantly changing.
Neither of us have yet turned up a wiring diag for your RP, Russ. Both those above are for later cars.

Re: Misha's point about rev.lights being able to be on when rev.light switch is disconnected, this is highly unlikely.

Russ, does your owner's handbook, if you have one, confirm the fuse number for rev.lights? Probably of academic interest, anyway!

Just a thought...Was the car ever wired up for towing? If so, rev.light switching (and/or rear fog light switching) could have been included in the add-on package. Probably a red (and white) herring.

You'll just have to chase it through, from either F23 or the rev.lights themselves.
On the latter, might be worth taking a look at the tailgate wiring, just in case the rev.lights have come into contact with something permanently live - although I'm not sure what that could be, as most of the items there are 'live switched' when needed.
Might be worth taking a look at the collection of connectors behind the rear RH tail-light, from where most of the rear-end lighting takes its feeds. Should be easy to identify anything perm live there, as well as the rev.lights*.

*confirm the rev lights by pulling your F23, so they go out, then re-supplying (via a 5A fuse!) the suspected rev.light wire.
Hi Chris,

Fuse is definitely F23. I have two handbooks and both confirm this and they are right it's the age and model of the car.

The car does have a tow bar. That could be it. Good point. I have checked all other rear lights ect, everything works as it should.
But at least with taking the fuse out, it shows that the rev lights are not picking up another positive feed from elsewhere. They go out taking the fuse out and don't light up again.
Did think of the wires in the rubber tubing on the boot hatch. Little tricky to get too, but will check.
I have been having a break from it all for the last few days. I have a bigger issue really that needs attention. That issue is appearing to be a stuck clutch. Gears cannot be selected when it's on. But can and do select very nicely when off.
Typical!
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

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