Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

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xmexclusive
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by xmexclusive » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:46 pm

Engine bay mods may turn out to be a scarlet shark.
Try the rubber flexy at the tailgate hinge.
Routine problem with wiring shedding its insulation causing false contacts.
Usually followed by the copper snapping on some wires.
Drivers side flexy will be the one with the main loom wires inside.
I have been in and repaired these wires on at least half a dozen XM's (cars and estates) over the years.

John

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White Exec
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:49 pm

Found something which may be of use.
This circuit (590-1/20, Gearbox electrics) is the oldest I have here.
It's for LHD, RP6383-6749, but shows F23 as the fuse for the reverse lights, so different from the later /20a and /20d above.
590-1_20 Russ rev.lights.jpg
If you look at #801(Auto gearbox relay), you'll see it's connected into the reverse lights, and also the cruise control*.
It's intended to energise when in P or N, and to then disable the feed to rev.lights (#498).
If that relay were malfunctioning (or mis-connected), it could switch on the rev.lights when IGN is turned on.
I'm unsure where that relay is located.

* to prevent CC operating while in reverse? Now there's a thought... Probably deleted on Police Spec models :twisted:

>>> EDIT
Having looked at this again, I'm baffled by that circuit diagram showing the Auto gearbox relay (#801) connected to "#498".
1 - the relay's function is starter inhibit (P & N only) surely?
2 - #498 is listed as Reverse light LH
3 - subsequent versions of that same circuit show it performing Start motor inhibit
4 - the relay makes no obvious connection to the R contacts on the gear selector switch.

So maybe back to the back end, as John advises.
The use of F23 could be correct, though.
The later circuits just show direct connection of the rev.lights to the gear selector switch, as previously discussed - no intervening devices.
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Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by djg » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:21 pm

Oh, tow bar. Never thought of that, although I have one, too. But with the fuse killing the light, well. The circuit is still rather simple, from the fuse it goes to the gearbox and back, that's two connectors but very difficult to get at them. Then it goes to the rear. Considering both the access and that the quickest way is a binary search (check in the middle, decide which half is bad, check that half in the middle, and so on), that would mean the connector in the sill. You need to remove the seat and the trim panel.
Bye,
Gábor

1996 XM 2.5 Turbo D VSX (LHD, Bleu Mauritius)
1986 BX 19 TRI Break (LHD, Rouge Vallelunga) deceased

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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by djg » Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:44 pm

Another idea. I don't say I consider it very likely but it's easier to check. The rear view mirror drop is fed from this same line. If the motor control unit might have its feed pin 3 constantly at high (maybe a circuit failure leaking from its other feed pin 1, I never looked into that unit so I can't tell if this is feasible or not, maybe just a shot in the dark), that could keep the voltage up to feed the lights. As the mirror unit other pin is fed from the front windows relay, that's relatively easy to disconnect temporarily. And the mirror unit itself might be marginally easier to access than the connector in the sill. Especially as it goes through the black round connector on the door pillar. That might be the best angle of attack.
Bye,
Gábor

1996 XM 2.5 Turbo D VSX (LHD, Bleu Mauritius)
1986 BX 19 TRI Break (LHD, Rouge Vallelunga) deceased

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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:56 am

For reversing light wiring route, connectors, etc., see Gabor's diagram (latest version 2.03):
http://www.club-xm.co.uk/forum/viewtopi ... 50#p108339
page 58
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by xmexclusive » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:40 am

Russ
Open the tailgate remove the two rear light covers.
You can now see the lights from the back.
Put the sidelights on.
Gently squeeze the drivers side rubber flexy found by the hinge so that you can shift wire positions a little in the bundle.
Watch the lights to see if any go on and off.
Simple check for a very common problem.
Age and mileage of car is no guide as it is caused by tailgate useage.

John

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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:40 pm

Thanks all for the advice. I shall go investigate. I think there are certain places to look where I might have disturbed something. Obvious is drivers footwell and then there's the boot area.

I shall try that trick John.

Mine doesn't have dipping side mirrors. Only S2 got those Gabor.
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:25 pm

I think I have worked out what is going on.....

Firstly I did the rear lights / squeeze the wiring in the rubber conduit check John suggested, and it didn't do anything. No flickers, everything works as it should.

I pulled out the old wiring harness just to have a look and see which plugs I'm meant to be looking at for the reversing lights, mainly for under the dash. Easier than scrabbling about in the car. Anyway, I looked at the inhibitor switch plug on this harness checking the wires and pins, just out of interest if anything. (pins 8&9 are to do with the reversing lights). This is from my old grey XM, so nothing to do with the Mandarin.
The wires going into the Grey XM plug told a very different story to the mandarins plug. These cars were built a week apart, yet the wires appear to be going to different pins, though they might go to the right pins inside the rubber weather proofing, but you would have to destroy this to find out. The Grey XMs plug seemed to make more sense than the mandarins.

With this in mind, I went back to the two grey wires I had joined thinking they were for the starter. (Of course that didn't work, and I ended up by passing it all.)
On the mandarin plug, the grey wires appeared to go to the correct 8&9 pins. But on the grey cars plug, it's actually a grey and a green wire. I cut the joined grey wires to see what would happen and the reversing lights don't come on now.
So clearly, a positive feed was hooked directly up to the reversing lights and not the starting circuit. So if I have this right, which who knows now, the wires I need should be a grey and a green. I'm in the middle of trying this out. There's only two grey and two green wires (the rest being thin wires for the LCD display), so this could be the problem.

Famous last words!
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:58 pm

Sounds as if you're on the right track: wiring and switch not matching up.
You'll need little of the wiring on that connector, except
- the two correct wires to switch on the rev.lights - connected to the new manual box switch
- a jump-together of the starter inhibit wires (so the starter motor will always operate).
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:54 am

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Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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