Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

The place to show off and tell us all about your XMs (or even other cars). Should it be a big project, or just some general pics, start your thread in here.
User avatar
russ92xmsed
Global Moderator
Posts: 5702
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:23 pm
Location: Cheltenham
Contact:

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:47 am

:D It's good news! They work.... it was the grey wires I had joined thinking they were for the starter. As I by passed them and fitted the starter relay, I just left them thinking they were now out of circuit, not releasing the reversing lights had lit when I had joined them up. Having snipped them the lights went out, so at least I knew it was a grey wire feeding the reversing lights. I systematically went through different variations of the four wires that might be the correct ones and it ended up just being the grey ones. Typical... very obvious now.


Which now leads to the final problem. This time mechanical. With the engine running, I can't seem to select any gears. Can when off.
This could be numerous things, but most likely it is either clutch cable not correctly adjusted, or the clutch disc could be stuck to the fly wheel.

Before getting involved with clutch discs I want to check the cable first.
Having consulted the Haynes book of lies where they state several times the clutch cable is not self adjusting... well they are... you can adjust the cable with a handy nut on the gearbox end of the cable. That doesn't exist. I followed the measuring guide for the pedal travel and it suggests that it should be 145mm. Mine is 120mm.

Has anyone got the proper measurement of what that should be?
And I am right in thinking the clutch cable is self adjusting and has no other way of adjusting it?
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

Dieselman
Global Moderator
Posts: 10469
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:44 pm

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by Dieselman » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:29 pm

The cable is self adjusting only.
Is the pedal retreating all the way to the stop? If not the self adjuster won't release the collett. A quick check of this is to pull the cable at the gearbox end with the pedal at rest, if it allows slack it is self adjusting.
1992 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
1992 2.1SD M.RP 5685 in ENT Blue Sideral
Previous:
1990 2.1SD M.RP 5049 in EJV Mandarin
1992 2.1SD A.RP 5698 in EJV Mandarin
1994 2.1SD A.RP 6218 in ERT Triton Green
1991 2.0SI M.RP 5187 in EWT White

User avatar
russ92xmsed
Global Moderator
Posts: 5702
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:23 pm
Location: Cheltenham
Contact:

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Sat Aug 18, 2018 3:12 pm

Right, that has confirmed my thoughts about the cable self adjusting.

It certainly feels and looks like the pedal is going to the stop. I don't think it can go any further down put it that way.
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

User avatar
Dean
Global Moderator
Posts: 5892
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:53 am
Location: Isle of wight

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by Dean » Sat Aug 18, 2018 5:51 pm

Is the clutch fork correctly engaged, I take it this being a good old cable job is a pusher system? Usually you can start the car in gear and break the clutch plate off the flywheel or take the bellboy sing cover off and with the clutch depressed gently prize the clutch plate off the flywheel.

D
92 Citroen XM Prestige 3.0i Auto R.P5678
14 Mitsubishi L200 Trojan
89 Talbot Express motorhome Auto-Trail coachbuilt (looking for bonnet, wings, scuttle panels etc)

Addicted to Crackanory

Dieselman
Global Moderator
Posts: 10469
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:44 pm

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by Dieselman » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:34 am

russ92xmsed wrote:Right, that has confirmed my thoughts about the cable self adjusting.

It certainly feels and looks like the pedal is going to the stop. I don't think it can go any further down put it that way.
The stop is at the upper, rest position, there is no stop for lower travel.

If the pedal isn't making it to the carpet either the pedal is being blocked, or the clutch is incorrectly installed so the cable can't push the release bearing in fully.

Disconnect the cable and see if the pedal depresses fully, if so check the clutch fork is engaged with the release bearing properly and the friction plate is installed the correct way round.

As Dean says, it is possible to break a stuck clutch free by starting the engine in gear. Unless the eclutch and splines have got wet since installation, I wouldn't expect it to have seized onto the splines.
1992 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
1992 2.1SD M.RP 5685 in ENT Blue Sideral
Previous:
1990 2.1SD M.RP 5049 in EJV Mandarin
1992 2.1SD A.RP 5698 in EJV Mandarin
1994 2.1SD A.RP 6218 in ERT Triton Green
1991 2.0SI M.RP 5187 in EWT White

User avatar
russ92xmsed
Global Moderator
Posts: 5702
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:23 pm
Location: Cheltenham
Contact:

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:10 am

Sorry Will, I misinterpreted your instructions. I will check again, but I think it is doing what it is meant to be doing. Put it this way it sits at rest a fraction higher than the brake pedal. With the cable off, there is full movement, I made sure if that when installing.

I haven't touched the clutch. It was last done by Robert Smart. It has 40k on it. The clutch hasn't got wet to my knowledge. It has been stored either undercover, indoors and on a palette off the ground. ie no different to it being in a car really, but I expect it might have got damp whilst dormant and that's stuck it to the flywheel.

I'll see if I can inspect it via a cover as you suggest Dean. The clutch feels like it is pulling or pushing on the clutch teeth springs so I think the mechanism is working as it should. It all feels smooth with correct feeling of resistance no squeaks or strange noises. The cable is used, but in very good condition. It came from Campbell's old white 2.1 hatch. The plastic end snapped off, but he kept it anyway. I have replaced all the plastic parts with metal.

I will try starting it in gear. Trouble is the car is in a very confined space and I don't want it jumping forward. I might see if I can do it on axel stands or at least put the ramps in front of the wheels so it will try and stop any thing like that happening.
Annoying not having a drive.
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

User avatar
russ92xmsed
Global Moderator
Posts: 5702
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:23 pm
Location: Cheltenham
Contact:

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:27 am

The pedal is definitely resting against the bumpstop.
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

User avatar
White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 4567
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:36 am

Russ,
Not sure whether you have this Cit. info...
Clutch adjustment (cable).pdf
...from Private Cars 2001 document.

EDIT - Apologies, only part of the manual section got uploaded.
Ditch previous download, if you did it, and use this one (11 pages).
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

User avatar
White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 4567
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:09 pm

Clutch adjustment pages now correctly posted. See above.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

Dieselman
Global Moderator
Posts: 10469
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:44 pm

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by Dieselman » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:47 pm

russ92xmsed wrote:Sorry Will, I misinterpreted your instructions. I will check again, but I think it is doing what it is meant to be doing. Put it this way it sits at rest a fraction higher than the brake pedal. With the cable off, there is full movement, I made sure if that when installing.

I haven't touched the clutch. It was last done by Robert Smart. It has 40k on it. The clutch hasn't got wet to my knowledge. It has been stored either undercover, indoors and on a palette off the ground. ie no different to it being in a car really, but I expect it might have got damp whilst dormant and that's stuck it to the flywheel.

I'll see if I can inspect it via a cover as you suggest Dean. The clutch feels like it is pulling or pushing on the clutch teeth springs so I think the mechanism is working as it should. It all feels smooth with correct feeling of resistance no squeaks or strange noises. The cable is used, but in very good condition. It came from Campbell's old white 2.1 hatch. The plastic end snapped off, but he kept it anyway. I have replaced all the plastic parts with metal.

I will try starting it in gear. Trouble is the car is in a very confined space and I don't want it jumping forward. I might see if I can do it on axel stands or at least put the ramps in front of the wheels so it will try and stop any thing like that happening.
Annoying not having a drive.
You need the car on the ground to create enough braking force to break the clutch free. With the parking brake and main footbrake on and if necessary, the wheels chocked, the car won't move.

Did you fit a complete engine and gearbox combo as one unit? If it hasn't been split and the clutch pedal and cable are working, It is almost certain to be the friction plate stuck on the splines. Is it possible the release fork became disconnected from the release bearing when there was no cable attached?

I'm confident you won't be able to gain enough access with the flywheel shield removed.
1992 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
1992 2.1SD M.RP 5685 in ENT Blue Sideral
Previous:
1990 2.1SD M.RP 5049 in EJV Mandarin
1992 2.1SD A.RP 5698 in EJV Mandarin
1994 2.1SD A.RP 6218 in ERT Triton Green
1991 2.0SI M.RP 5187 in EWT White

Post Reply