Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

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russ92xmsed
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Sun Aug 19, 2018 5:44 pm

Thanks Will. I will try starting it in gear tomorrow.

The engine and gearbox went in as one. I haven't split it. Really wish I had now! My impatience got the better of me.

I couldn't tell you if the release fork has disconnected. All I can say, is that it it's free to move easily until it's put into position to allow the cable to be fitted. You cannot push it back by hand unless the cable is fitted. If that makes sense.
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

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White Exec
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:54 pm

Russ, my guess is that if the fork is correctly located in the thrust race groove, if you detach the cable and make small and very gentle movements of the lever back and forth by hand, you might be able to feel the fork's limited movement within the groove. If there is massive back and forth movement felt, then either the thrust race is extremely free moving, or the fork has disengaged.

Assuming it's correctly mated up with the thrust race, IIRC, making a sudden movement of the lever (in the declutch direction) will throw the thrust race against the spring fingers of the pressure plate, with a characteristic and audible small clang. If you pull the lever gently back, each time you throw it will repeat the sound. If there is no sound of impact, the thrust race is either behind the fork, or right out in front of it and more-or-less in constant contact with the fingers.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:53 am

Interesting.

When the lever is detached from the cable, it moves back and forth, but where it rests for the clutch cable to be attached it cannot go any further. The cable has to pull it back. When the cable is off and you do as you describe Chris you can hear it hit the pressure plate fingers. You can hear that sound you describe. When the cable is attached and you press the clutch pedal down, it does feel like it's pushing on the pressure plate.

The lever doesn't feel loose in any other direction. It doesn't move up and down and it definitely presses against the pressure plate fingers.
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

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White Exec
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:00 am

Sounds like the fork is correctly engaged then.
So, it's either a seized/stuck friction plate (start it in gear, with pedal pressed), or the pedal height/movement is incorrect (see the pdf I posted).
If the friction plate is properly free, possible the clutch pedal isn't moving the lever enough - declutching but not sufficiently. That ought to be sortable by pedal height (travel) adjustment.
Any measurements are usually from the bare floor upwards IIRC.
Last edited by White Exec on Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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russ92xmsed
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:42 am

Thanks Chris. I shall take a look at the pedal again. Thank you for posting up that info.
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

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White Exec
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Posts: 4567
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:02 pm

Just a daft thought...
Are the clutch (ie engine/gearbox mechanism) and clutch pedal unit (lifted from another car?) a pair intended to work together? Just wondered whether the two might not be matched, leverage-wise.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by xmexclusive » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:17 pm

The are at least two different RHD clutch cable lengths to suit different engines.
This causes regular problems with the clutch not working.

John

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White Exec
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:37 pm

Cable length may only be one factor if the pedal itself provided the wrong amount of cable pull, for the cable itself and the bellhouse lever at the other end.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

User avatar
White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 4567
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:37 pm

Done a bit of trawling on Parts.

There are two clutch pedals listed for cable-operated clutch RHD cars (both NFP):
96 082 369 All cars except V6 and TD, but including XUD11A (PJZ, 2138cc)
2127 88 V6 and TD, including XUD11ATE (PHZ, 2088cc)
These run across both S1 and S2.
If two different clutch pedals, maybe leverage differed too.

Clutch cable
As John says, variation here too. For RHD cars, three different cables listed (all NFP):
2150 J5 ME5T, except D11ATE
2150 J6 petrol XU10J2 and BE3
2150 J7 D11ATE and ME5T
I'm no expert on these, but the RHD versions include a right-angled lever arrangement, to facilitate the cable crossing the bulkhead. Could it be that the leverage built into these widgets varied between cars too?

If you can't achieve a result with proper pedal adjustment, might be worth looking at what's matched to what.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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russ92xmsed
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:53 pm

Clutch cable is from a known 2.1 and is in good condition. I have replaced the plastic parts with metal. The 90 degree quadrant is a CNC replica of the original. I made the end piece and had it welded up, but did check measurements, so if it's out, it's by 1-2mm.

I'm questioning if I have the correct pedal mechanism now. But as I mention this, Chris you have answered my question possibly. I think mine has come from a V6. But if your info is right, that means it is correct and okay to use.

On other news, I have freed the clutch off. The car now moves...YIPEE!! .... But the biting point is ridiculously low and the gears are not quite nice to use yet. They do engage but fight abit.
Suggests the clutch isnt fully disengaging. Which leads me to think either something needs adjustment or the clutch is sticking possibly.

I had another look at the pedal mechanism, I just can't see how it can be adjustable.
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

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