Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

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White Exec
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Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:55 pm

Good news about freeing off the clutch, and about the likely pedal match.

If you have a copy of Peter Russek handy, try pp.110-114*. Covers pedal adjustment and handling self-adjusting cables.
Shows how pedal travel measurements should be check and adjusted. If travel is insufficient, clutch won't disengage.

*can e-mail to you; PM if needed.

Also be sure to fill box with Total Transmission 8 (75W-80 and GL-4) for easy gear changes, when you get to fine tuning.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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russ92xmsed
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:51 pm

Thanks Chris. If you don't mind that would be helpful. I'll send you a PM.
I don't have a copy. I have tried to find one, but they seem to be quite difficult to get hold of. Will search again, as it will be useful to have a copy.

I have got the transmission oil you suggest in the box.
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

Dieselman
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by Dieselman » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:21 pm

There is no cable adjustment on a 2.1TD. The pedal is spring loaded to reach the upper stop which should then cause the upper cable to relax fully allowing the lower cable to retreat to the point where the gripping collet is released. In turn this allows the spring to take up slack.
There is no pedal lower stop.

Ensure the collect is releasing and check the upper cable is taking up slack and pulling the pivot soon after the pedal moves from the upper stop. A minor variation in upper cable length has a pronounced effect on clutch bite position.
1992 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
1992 2.1SD M.RP 5685 in ENT Blue Sideral
Previous:
1990 2.1SD M.RP 5049 in EJV Mandarin
1992 2.1SD A.RP 5698 in EJV Mandarin
1994 2.1SD A.RP 6218 in ERT Triton Green
1991 2.0SI M.RP 5187 in EWT White

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russ92xmsed
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:49 pm

Interesting Will. I will double check that. Thanks.

I have been having another look and measured the pedal travel as per Petter Russek manual. Apparently it should be 145mm minimum. Mine is 110. Would explain things.

Looking, as Will says, there is no way of adjusting anything. Sooooooo......

The next thought is this. I seem to have a S2 clutch pedal mechanism. I bought the bits from Paul. It's the version that is screwed to the pedalbox as well as pivoted in the same place above. The return spring is quite different being at the back of the mechanism rather than on the pivot bar.

Having looked at this, I'm wondering if the either the locating screws are holding the whole lot too low, or is the clutch cable I have correct for this clutch mechanism. Peter Russek says there was a change to an adjustable cable at some point for S2. I wonder, with the smaller movement of this clutch pedal, would an adjustable cable then take up the slack.....

Further investigations to how it's all operating first.
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

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White Exec
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Posts: 4563
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:49 pm

The clutch pedals I listed above run across both S1 and S2, so you shouldn't have a problem with vintage.

Pedal travel: Ignore the cable for the moment. Start with the pedal. The floor presumably sets the lower end of travel (unless there's a lower end stop), and a top (pedal return) stop would allow the pedal travel to be adjusted to what the book specifies. Get the travel right first, then attach or hook up the cable.

110mm is a ludicrously tiny amount of travel!
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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russ92xmsed
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:23 pm

Right, I have investigated some more. That pedal cannot be adjust in any way. There is a resting stop, that is clearly visible and it butts right up against it. There is no way that can be adjusted unless you cut it away. The two locating screws I was try to describe shouldn't be taken out. It would not allow the pedal to adjust in any way. In fact it would make the pedal drop lower.

The pedal looks to be sitting at the correct height. Higher than the brake pedal but not so high as to be awful to use. Visually it looks correct.

Interestingly it seems to have a lower stop. It feels like it does. I can push the pedal all the way down just above floor height and it will not go any further. But this could also be the end of the cable travel. It's like it has a set amount of travel, which makes me think an adjustable cable is what really sets the biting point.

A handy assistant operated the clutch pedal whilst I watched the cable in action. It moves as soon as the pedal is pushed. There seems to be little to no slop in the cable. Again.. looks just right.

Out of interest, how much is the clutch fork arm meant to move? That might help point to an answer.
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

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White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 4563
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:37 pm

"I can push the pedal all the way down just above floor height and it will not go any further. But this could also be the end of the cable travel."
If you disconnect the cable from the pedal, do you get any additional pedal movement?
Can you get anywhere near 145mm travel?
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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russ92xmsed
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Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by russ92xmsed » Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:02 pm

Okay... as of last Saturday, I now have a working clutch and pedal. It was the cable that was causing the issues. I had stupidly put a rubber grommet behind the 90 degree bell crank on the firewall, therefore packing it out too much and removing any slack from the upper cable. Removed that and the rubber cover on the pedal stop and the travel is now correct and clutch biting point is where you would expect it to be and pedal height feels right.
The Ferrule on the cable behind the matrix heater pipes was about 5mm off. Finding some info buried in the forum, I realised it had to be resting against the adjuster. Removing those bits has removed that 5mm disreprancy.

I just now need to do a little bit of adjustment to stop the pedal going too far, as it hesitates a bit when coming up from the floor.

Then it's fixing a coolant leak that has decided to appear. Two bits of rust need welding and then MOT time.
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

User avatar
White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 4563
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Russ's 2.1 SED Auto now in Mandarin

Post by White Exec » Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:52 pm

Splendid news on the clutch pedal.
A real Wallis & Grommet adventure! :roll:
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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