K725KVG latest home -KVG gone; Hello to KBAN-

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miq
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K725KVG latest home -KVG gone; Hello to KBAN-

Post by miq » Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:58 am

Hello all from Nottingham,

My name is Miquel (Miq) and I just bought Vince's / Ray's old XM 2.1TD (K725KVG). First of all thanks a lot to those of you who messaged me when I posted that I was after a xm, at the end I think I got a real good one, and the first one I fell in love with! And a very special thanks to Ray for actually selling the car to me, I was not entirely sure I'd pass the XM future owners test when I met him in Liverpool after 4 hours in the train :? Perhaps I should move this to introductions but if you keep reading there will be a few observations about the car later on, so admins please feel free to act accordingly.

In any case, you probably all know the car a lot better than I do as there are numerous topics here on its restoration and further work on it. It's got many many miles but it's in extremely good condition and the history (not just service history but amount of information) is impressive.

Long story short I come from a family of car enthusiasts who has traveled quite a lot around Europe. The first car I remember was our Citroen GS (I am the smallest kid in the photo below)...I remember my dad walking into a show room when I was 3 or so and seating me at the back (no seat belts of course). It was also the first car I ever "drove", as we used to go to dirt tracks and my dad would sit me on his lap, I'd steer (or thought I did) and then press his left or right leg if I wanted to brake or accelerate. Unfortunately, we moved to Holland after a few years and the GS had been severely damaged by a drunk tractor driver over night, so I am very sad to say that's the only car we ever left behind as a family -we all cried like babies when we left her at the breakers!-

Image

And that was that for Citroens in the family, at least until now. We've had and still have many jags, old jeeps, mg's, minis, etc but no citroens, not because my parents didn't like them at the time but because they moved on to different pastures. Here until two days ago my wife and I had a x300 and a xj40 jag respectively as daily drivers (they are really good, reliable work horses if you've never driven one, and mine was on lpg so real cheap to run), and then two of my other cars in the garage (a road legal rally spec Integrale that's also been featured in magazines and an Uno Turbo mk1 that has been with me since I took my licence over 12 years ago now). So what brought my attention to the XM? Well as part of my job we race with electric superbikes (TT and track series around the Globe), and last Monday I was cuing on the ferry back from Holland, where apparently there'd been a big citroen meet during the weekend and next to the van there was a really clean black XM. I was shocked at how cool the car was, it looked to timeless if that makes any sense. The XM is one of those cars that I remembered from when we used to live in Holland back in the early 90s but I always saw them as "normal" cars, but they have aged soooo well. The ferry gave me a further 7 hours to find information on these cars, and obviously this forum. The one link I did save as inspiration was Vince's before and after on the retro rides forum and detailing world, and then obviously the extensive restoration that went on in this forum. So you can guess my surprise when I got a message from Ray after posting that I was after one...even more he didn't want a million trillion pounds although it has such extensive history and work carried out. I had to have it. Put my jag for sale (cheap...), which sold within 24 hrs, jumped into a train to Liverpool and drove her back home, simples :lol:

Now to the car, and main aim of this post. I am not going to go into detail on what's been done to it as that's credit to the amazing work done by Ray and Vince (have I thank you yet guys? :mrgreen:). I have driven many cars and work on many more as until last March I had a car restoration business (apart from my job at the University), and the XM has to be the most deceptive car there is out there (my Uno turbo almost killed me when I was 18 and floored it for the first time unaware of what "turbo" meant...but that was my fault haha). In any case the trip from Liverpool to Nottingham on a Friday eve had lots of everything: traffic, roadworks and accidents, opened country roads as the gps found weird shortcuts, motorway, etc.

I've never owned or even worked on a diesel, so as you do you buy an old 2.1TD expecting it to drive and sound like a bit of a tractor (all the diesel rentals I've had do!). Now I've realised that it's all a lie, some sort of illuminati plot that has made diesels worse in the last decade or two!! This thing has well over 200k miles and it's smooth like my 6 cylinder jag (perhaps not as much, but close enough). On the motorway you are doing 70-80 before you know it (you don't need more than that anyway) and you can still listen to the old school stereo no probs (which by the way gets better signal than anything I've had before). The ride is excellent (I suppose this is why these cars were famous after all, and what made citroen great together with the futuristic looks), and it behaves the same in severe rain or dry. Then the gps sent me through a country road for about 30 miles which I thought was going to prove that the XM was a useless, soft, underpowered boat trying to crawl corner to corner...well I was wrong, veeeery wrong :oops:

The "adaptive" suspension, especially in sports mode makes it extremely good around the corners, much better than lots of cars I've driven before, especially for what I would call a "cruiser". The engine and manual gearbox are definitely up for the job, and before you know it you are actually pushing on windy roads!! Excellent!! Even the ridiculously comfy seats feel a tad like semi bucket seats :lol:
My verdict is that you better have no preconceptions when it comes to driving a XM, she's a bit like that chubby girlfriend that used to go to mass every weekend...I was not expecting her to be a big deal in bed but boy oh boy she was good :mrgreen:

Dirty comments aside, the car is great. You stop for a coffee and can't avoid looking at it through the window. I even got the thumbs up a few times and people asking about it. It's all you may want in a "retro" car really! We even added another 80 miles at night with my very pregnant wife to go for dinner, she loved it!

Right, so after my bit of verbal diarrhea let's jump into the stuff that needs doing in order of priority:

- Clutch adjustment. The clutch is quite new but the biting point is far too low, when I say low I mean you have to push the pedal into the carpet for the gears to go in, and then the travel is enormous (it's a good 6 inches higher than the brake pedal, and has like 2-3 inches of free play at the top). I will investigate what type of cable I have and adjust it accordingly.

- Gear linkage needs bushes or adjusting. I've read that the mechanism got some welding done a few years back, and am wondering if something got misaligned. The gear changes really spoil the excellent ride at the moment, so this needs attention. Perhaps with the clutch adjustment everything sorts itself out, but the way I feel it I am pretty sure something is misaligned or has a bit too much wear.

- The cigarette lighter goes bang every time I try to put the phone charger in it. I am quite sure there is a short somewhere there. The radio and cigarette lights are not working either, so my suspicion is that someone used the feed to it for the radio or central locking and something's gone loose.

- Passenger's side mirror is temperamental and the thermocouple inside is not working, will probably need rewiring or a new one.

- Oil and filter change just in case, although the current one has done like 1k miles. I will also install the new oil level sensor while I am at it.

- The "chromed" bits on the trim outside the car is perished. Ray gave me some chrome tape that I will try on it. Any info on taking these to bits? I've also read that someone here sells copies in stainless which may be the best solution.

- Clean and protect the underside and arches of the car again. They are so good that it would be a shame to ruin them now.

- Rear repeaters. Although these don't seem shorted with the brake lights, when you use the repeaters the bulb failure alarm comes on for the rear lights. I am pretty sure it will be a ground, or if the car had a tow bar installed in the past (which I believe it did), there is meant to be some sort of bodge somewhere down there...

- Front NS tyre is worn on the inside. I've only got to page 50 on Vince's resto and he was going on about one tyre wearing unevenly, so it may be that one. It's either the steering or some geometry is a bit screwed. Perhaps he never changed it I am unsure, but it was not an advisory on the MOT so if it was fine 8 months ago then it's worn pretty badly given the few miles that it's done.

- Detailing....I will need help here. I've seen that Ray and Vince were polishing, waxing, feeding and saying "good night" to the plastics and so on on a weekly basis...my forte is mechanics, not detailing, so any help in this area would be much appreciated as I really want to keep the car mint inside-out, although I will use it as a daily.

- Preventive maintenance. Any tips here will be much appreciated. I like the fact that the car seems in really good nick both body and mechanically, which is great as these days I don't really have that much time to spanner at home. However, I'd rather spend a weekend a month changing parts that may go wrong than driving it for a month with a knock until I get time to sort it if you know what I mean!!

That's about it for now. As Ray said, I've got some "bonding" to do with the old girl but I am under the impression that I will enjoy the ride and she will stay with me for many years. I do think that I am lucky to own one of these, and that they are proper future classics.

Couple of pics of the car on the way back home, probably the dirtiest it's been in years!

Image
Image

Regards and thanks in advance for any comments!!

Miq.
Last edited by miq on Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

citroenxm
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Re: K725KVG latest home

Post by citroenxm » Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:54 am

Wow. welcome along. It was I who did the nudging and told ray you were looking..

The rear brake light fault is easy. Solder in and put in a seperate earth wire from the earth plate in the lamp bulb holder to the body and this will cure that fault with the brake light warnings..

Never mind all this.. Two words... Uno Turbo. Mk.1 ... Wow.. I LOVE THESE.

I hope it is all standard. I had a 55 for a first car but wanted a 70 SX then or course a Turbo but it never happend. Id love to see it.

I rescued your xm from scrap about 5 years or so ago.. And put the clutch in. Im not sure what the issue is with the pedal but i dont think they are adjustable.. They are auto adjustable . there could be an issue with the auto adjuster i guess..

Keep an eye around rear subframe mounts. Under the floor.. Front areas behind ALL FOUR jacking point plates.. Never use the jack point plates to lift the cars as the bend easyilly and and tear the the metal behind and start letting water in.. I always jack with a trolly jack against the subframes..
If i remember correctly i also did the cam belt and water pump too.. So that shouldnt need dooing just yet.. Though vince might know better..
Projects:(eventually if theres any bodywork left)
93 L Xm 2.1t D auto project
93 L xm V6 12v Sei Manual

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xantia_v6
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Re: K725KVG latest home

Post by xantia_v6 » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:36 am

Welcome to the forum and XM ownership.

I am also a (semi-) reformed Jaguar enthusiast that has movd on to Cutroens (although my Jags were and are all V12s).

One thing on your list: The lighter socket is probably shorting out when you plug something in. There is a plastic insultor sleeve that separates the live and earth contacts, but this often gets broken and falls out, causing the socket to short out when something is plugged in. The solution is to find an un-broken replacement socket, and use it carefully.
1999 XM Exclusive V6 24V ES9 Manual (LHD) 105,000 km
1997 Xantia Exclusive V6 (RHD) 45,000 miles

Dieselman
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Re: K725KVG latest home

Post by Dieselman » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:44 am

The clutch cable is auto-adjust and needs free play at the top of travel to release the collett, however, it sounds like the pedal stop is missing so the pedal comes up too far on the return spring.

Thinking back, Vince had a snapped cable and the local specialist fitted a new one. iirc, it's possible they fitted the wrong cable as they had trouble obtaining the correct one. A cable for the BE3 gearbox is longer, so would give the overly long travel you are experiencing. If this is so, a shim could be used to take up the slack.

The outside temperature sensor is mounted in the near side door mirror and are available as spares.

As said, the rear lights earthing is often poor due to the connectors onto the lamp units. Often all that is required is crimping the connectors up tighter.

For the wearing tyre, I suspect the wishbone bushes are worn, but obviously the tracking could be out and as XM ride over speed cusshions pretty well, they tend to be taken at speed, which wears the inner edge of the front tyres.

Your electric motorcycle racing sounds very interesting, I'm a huge fan of electric cars.
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MTXM
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Re: K725KVG latest home

Post by MTXM » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:54 am

Hi Miquel,

A warm welcome to the world of the XM and well done you for taking on Ray's car, which is a nice example of the model with a fascinating history! There are many dedicated and friendly enthusiasts on the Forum and much good assistance available, as already amply demonstrated. Hopefully there will be chance to meet up at one of the CCC Rallies and the Chevrons is coming up on 9-11th September and not that far from you in Milton Keynes.

I was also interested to read your car history and reasons for buying an XM, including this bit:
I was cuing on the ferry back from Holland, where apparently there'd been a big citroen meet during the weekend and next to the van there was a really clean black XM.
It was my car you spotted and Dave and I were returning from the ICCCR in Holland near Arnhem!

With regards,

Matthew T.
1989 V6 Exclusive (Poland car) - Now living in a local Motor Museum!
1990 V6sei auto (grey auto)
1990 V6sei manual (gold car)
1990 V6.24 Pallas (Germany car)
1990 V6.24v (Scotland car)
Other previous XM sold and broken too many to mention!

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White Exec
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Re: K725KVG latest home

Post by White Exec » Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:07 am

Welcome, Miquel. You've certainly inherited a much-loved car, with a good history.
Your opening post made great reading - thank you for that!

Citroen, with the XUD, produced one of the first fast and refined "non-clattery" diesels, and won plaudits with it in the BX.
The quietness is largely down to it being indirect injection, rather than the DI found on most newer engines.
The XM inherited this IDI, and is the smoother for it. By contrast, our Toyota D4D is quite harsh; we nearly didn't buy it new in 2003 because of that.

Your comments about XM big car handling are spot on, and what make the car something very special. DIscovering the limits of its road adhesion, safely, can be a lot of fun. It will always let you know when things are about to 'give', particularly if you have wisely shod her with Michelins. Another endearing feature is the tendency of XMs to break down at home, rather than miles from anywhere. Several of us have commented on this. Nice.

All good advice above.
Enjoy!
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

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russ92xmsed
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Re: K725KVG latest home

Post by russ92xmsed » Sat Aug 20, 2016 12:39 pm

Welcome to the forum Miquel. I hope you enjoy owning KVG. It's a lovely example and good to hear it's in the hands of an enthusiastic owner. Niggles aside, they are great cars to own. But have patience!

When you mentioned seeing a black XM at a ferry port, I did wonder if it was Matthew's V6 24v you spotted.

Hopefully we will see you at a future CCC rally. Definitely recommend the Chevrons rally in September. :D
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
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I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
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miq
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Re: K725KVG latest home

Post by miq » Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:37 am

Thanks all for the warm welcome. I must say, every single car forum I've been part of has been going downhill since facebook became more popular, I am really impressed of the activity in this one so well done everyone for keeping it up!

- Citroenxm: Yep, the Uno was my first car too, I was lucky enough to get a very early (and mint) turbo without knowing what I was buying. It is standard apart from the wheels (I found the 13'' too small), the seats which are genuine recaros off a 130tc abarth (these are even rarer than the car!) and the steering wheel. It's never let me down, although it's gone from 30k miles to 110k now under my ownership. I'm more mature and scared of speeding tickets these days, but ten years ago the car got properly abused my my heavy right foot ;) now I tend to drive it to Holland, France or Spain once or twice a year and use it as a daily for a week every 4 or so. It's been through phases same as I have, so it's had oz rally wheels (which to be honest were really good), a tad more boost, sportier suspension and so on, but now I've gone back to a happy medium. If I ever respray it (all still original) I will also remove the black stickers, as mine was the very first one imported to Spain and it didn't have them so it looked like a "normal" uno from factory. There go a few pics in its current form, there are more photos of it a few years back when it still had the OZ's here (http://www.dropoutmedia.com/#!features-uno/c22q4)

Image Image Image Image

Back to the XM front thanks for rescuing it, I didn't know it was you :P I've only seen a couple of pictures of when Vince first got it and it seems hard to believe that someone would throw it away :cry:

- Xantia_v6: I had a look at the socket already and you were right, the plastic cap at the bottom has 4 legs and 2 were broken, so the gps charger was shorting it all. I've now taken it to bits (see pic) and will 3D print a copy at work tomorrow (a 3D printer opens a whole new world of possibilities for fixing things like these haha).
Image

- Dieselman: I've been looking at the clutch pedal now and there is some sort of plastic stop but it's real thin, not sure how chunky this should be. I am quite sure that it's not designed to have 3 pedals on 3 different height levels but God knows, french cars hey :lol: I am under the impression that the cable is indeed too long, when the pedal is resting, if I look in the engine bay the cable has quite a bit of slack, so perhaps sleeving it as you suggest. I'll investigate further today.

As for the lights that is now sorted, the OS had had its wires chopped (I am assuming for the tow back in the day) and the new connections were all taped together. I resoldered them and added heat shrink and the alarm is gone!

In all honesty I always thought that electric vehicles were somehow Micky Mouse (Nissan Leaf and so no) and pretending to be far too sensible without really being (200kg of LiPos...very green!). However, the specs of electric motors when it comes to racing are simply ridiculous!!! We've built our bikes from scratch and Nottingham is now putting together a professional race team that will race with the bikes and a car at International level. To give you an example, the least powerful of our bikes can have peak power of 260kW ca. 350hp and 1000Nm of torque constant....insane!! We are doing quite well too being the current European champions and 3rd at the Isle of Man! The local race this year is Pembrey on the 17th and 18th of September if anyone is local to the area.

- Matthew (MTMX): This is all your fault then :lol: I wanted to come and ask you about the car but we were near you in a huge orange van just before the passport control and afterwards they made us go straight in where you went to a cue on the left hand side. I wandered around the cargo area in the ferry trying to find it but I only saw a few DS's. In any case the car looked superb!

- White Exec: Thanks for your comments and the info, I had no idea that these diesels worked any differently than modern ones. I certainly need to gain more knowledge on diesels as at the moment I am quite naive! I've always been quite lucky too with my cars breaking down either at home or in such a way that they could crawl back home, we'll see with this one!!

- Russ92xmsed: Yes, hope to come to some rally eventually...when is the next one?

As I mentioned yesterday I managed to spend an hour or so working on the car and the lighter and lights are now sorted. I've been having a nose around the engine bay and there are a couple of things I need help with -today I will do my best to do some proper research here in the forum-. I really want to make sure that the throttle is well adjusted, as it has like an inch of travel and have no idea if the butterfly opens at it should (butterfly or whatever a diesel has).

On the boost pressure front I think that someone removed the boost pressure solenoid (if these cars have one, which I believe they do). The vacuum pipe that goes from the wastegate to (in theory) the solenoid is blanked, and there is no actuator anywhere....any diagrams showing the vaccum pipes routing?? Not that I am too bothered with the car not having too much boost, however, running at a lower boost pressure can bring all sorts of issues with deposits, etc. especially in diesel engines (basically running rich all the time). Also, is there any preventive maintenance you'd recommend like taking the inlet to bits and cleaning some valves, etc?? I think that this model has an egr, so not sure if you guys clean that every now and then.

This is the pipe that's been blanked, I do think that's the one that goes to the wastegate. The pipe is right in front of the firewall, driver's side, and comes from the middle(ish)/turbo side.
Image

Thanks again to everyone!

Miq.

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Re: K725KVG latest home

Post by citroenxm » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:04 am

These turbos dont use a vaccum for the wastegate.. They use an internal pressure sensor to control boost.. Quite reliable really as theres no reliance on external vaccum systems or electro valves etc..

Ive got some pics of me dooing the clutch as AS WAS when i first got the car...

Here they are..

.http://s78.photobucket.com/user/citroen ... o%20D%20XM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Projects:(eventually if theres any bodywork left)
93 L Xm 2.1t D auto project
93 L xm V6 12v Sei Manual

Others
In use.. 1995 M reg S2 2.1td auto exclusive

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russ92xmsed
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Re: K725KVG latest home

Post by russ92xmsed » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:30 am

To answer your rally question Miq, next rally is 9,10,11th of September at little Horwood. bucks, MK17 0PF.

That blanked of pipe looks like a bleed valve for the coolant.... I think.
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

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