A conversion...

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MTXM
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Re: A conversion...

Post by MTXM » Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:46 pm

It was interesting to see your progress Paul and what a coincidence that you also seem to have torque convertor/ starter ring issues! I also wondered whether the engine and box have been split before and the tc not pushed fully home, which I have read elsewhere it is critical to check. The fact that the flex plate bolts were not overtight suggests an earlier removal? The arrangement with the separate starter ring is very much like the HP18 box! With regards, Matthew T.
1989 V6 Exclusive (Poland car)
1990 V6sei auto (grey auto)
1990 V6sei manual (gold car)
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1990 V6.24v (Scotland car)
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citroenxm
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Re: A conversion...

Post by citroenxm » Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:03 pm

I beleve theres only TWO owners to the car, previous and current.. What I DID find strange though was the gearbox to chassis leg mount, theres two top bolts, and supposed to be three in the side, however, only two were fitted.. so theres another possible pointer to box removal or complete removal previously. The car does have a healthy 154k on it or so..
1990 H reg V6 24v Manual .. in progress.. on SORN
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Re: A conversion...

Post by citroenxm » Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:48 pm

Well some more back ground.. the autobox was replaced at 130k by the first owner. current owner bought the car at 134k .. and im now herexat 156k or so..

So 20k on a box.. not very tight torque converter to flywheel bolts. I mean they werent loose but werent bloody tight as i was warned they would be and a mount bolt missing. hmmmm.

Im hoping now the engine is good and its shoddy box installation we are looking at..
1990 H reg V6 24v Manual .. in progress.. on SORN
Projects:
92 L Xm 2.1t D auto project
Others
07 c5 2.2 hdi 173bhp manual

xantia_v6
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Re: A conversion...

Post by xantia_v6 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:08 am

Paul, I suppose you know that the flywheel bolts are stretch bolts and should not be re-used?
If the issue was caused by the torque converter not being engaged properly in the transmission, then it will almost certainly have destroyed the crankshaft thrust surfaces. It could be that the engine is toast, but the transmission is OK...
1999 XM Exclusive V6 24V ES9 Manual (LHD) 105,000 km
1997 Xantia Exclusive V6 (RHD) 45,000 miles

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White Exec
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Re: A conversion...

Post by White Exec » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:00 am

A check on the crank end-float should give a clue to any damage there, don't you think, Mike?
New bolts and correct grade of loctite important. Also recommended to clean out the crankshaft threaded holes with an appropriate tap.
Chris
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Re: A conversion...

Post by xantia_v6 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:25 am

A check of end float is essential, but given the damage on the starter plate, (unless it was completely loose and flopping around), I am not optimistic.

I don't think that the ES9 flywheel bolts use Loktite. The PSA instructions are: tighten to 2.0 m.daN then tighten a further 60 degrees.

BTW, the tool for fitting the crankshaft oil seal is included in the timing belt tool kit, I have always wondered what it was for, and just spotted it on servicebox on the seal replacement page.
1999 XM Exclusive V6 24V ES9 Manual (LHD) 105,000 km
1997 Xantia Exclusive V6 (RHD) 45,000 miles

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Re: A conversion...

Post by citroenxm » Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:46 am

There was remains of some sort of loctite on the bolts when i took them out.. and even my rattle gun couldnt undo them so i had to use a long bar to undo them...
1990 H reg V6 24v Manual .. in progress.. on SORN
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92 L Xm 2.1t D auto project
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07 c5 2.2 hdi 173bhp manual

Dieselman
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Re: A conversion...

Post by Dieselman » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:29 pm

Assuming the flywheel bolts are indeed stretch bolts, what is the allowable amount of stretch before they can't be re-used?

I would be surprised if 2.0 m.daN then tighten a further 60 degrees would be enough to stretch them beyond their elastic limit.
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Re: A conversion...

Post by xmexclusive » Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:13 pm

I have checked the 406, 605 & C5 workshop manuals for the ES9J engine with the 4HP20 and ML5T.
All agree with above bolt setting by torque wrench followed by controlled angular movement.
None of those documents specify use of new bolts or set dimensional limits for reuse.

John

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Re: A conversion...

Post by MTXM » Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:20 pm

It was interesting to hear that bit of history with the earlier box change Paul and how annoying that the tc does not appear to have been fitted correctly! By 'flywheel bolts', in this case do we mean the eight bolts connecting between the crankshaft and the flex plate and starter ring, which is not strictly a flywheel on the auto is it? Regards, Matthew T.
1989 V6 Exclusive (Poland car)
1990 V6sei auto (grey auto)
1990 V6sei manual (gold car)
1990 V6.24 Pallas (Germany car)
1990 V6.24v (Scotland car)
Other previous XM sold and broken too many to mention!

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