3.0 V6-24 Project

The place to show off and tell us all about your XMs (or even other cars). Should it be a big project, or just some general pics, start your thread in here.
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White Exec
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Posts: 5049
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: 3.0 V6-24 Project

Post by White Exec » Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:43 am

Morning Will,

Here's a link to one of the posts containing the wiring diagrams
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=9085&p=110016&hilit=pepon1#p110016

The Pepon1 diagrams (pdf) are very good, because they include a front-end decent index on Electrical Sections, with both applicable RP numbers (6383 is the earliest, 2May94) and Evolution changes.

Scans are pretty good (better than Noz/Ebaman mostly), and are best printed with printer set to B&W, I found.
I had printed the whole lot out at A3, for legibility - before my A3 printer finally died. Don't have an A3 facility now.
___

Electrical Component codes/identification

Numerical list - Citroen original
XM Electrical Parts List, original numerical.pdf
Alphabetical list - recently posted
XM Electrical Parts List Alphabetical Vn.3.pdf
C.
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Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

xmexclusive
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Re: 3.0 V6-24 Project

Post by xmexclusive » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:19 am

Citroen list the difference between 515-22/60 & 515-22/60a as:
Evolution a: Modif. to autodiagnostic warning lamp connection.
--60 was valid for RHD cars 07/90 - 03/92.
Information taken from 510-000/1 page 4 (Issue 15).
All the other loose page diagrams listed are for LHD cars.

So the main manual does not list any significant wiring changes.

I suspect that the document needed is Dealers News Flash XM 1 No. 52. dated 21 Dec 1992.
V6 & V6 24v Oxygen Sensors.
Applies to V6-24v up to RP No. 5347.
Observation:
Unstable idling, engine misfire or hesitation and illumination of the diagnostic warning lamp.
Destruction of the oxygen sensors.
Diagnoses:
Oxygen sensors wrongly connected.

I think I have scanned and put those documents up on the site a good while ago as this subject has come up before.

John

Dieselman
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Re: 3.0 V6-24 Project

Post by Dieselman » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:29 am

Chris and John, thanks for that.
I have already referenced those diagrams for the EVAP connections and trip computer speed pulse.
The scans of the Fenix-4 diagrams is pretty poor with a number of the connectors illegible.
The wiring diagram I have is correct, but due to the ECU logging codes and not having the legend, I followed the Citroen Technical book.

John. I have now found and saved the Technical bulletin you reference. My RP is later than that specified and my sensors were always connected red-red and yellow-yellow.
You added the documents by editiing an earlier post, so I didn't see them at the time. Thanks for referencing them now.

download/file.php?id=6122
download/file.php?id=6123
download/file.php?id=6124

At that point there were other reasons the engine wasn't running correctly, each have been addressed in turn.

Chris. That index (in English) is useful.

My main point is that anyone who references the official Citroen literature posted for the ZPJ4 is going to have difficulty, as it is incorrect. This happened to a member on here (xm24v), who destroyed at least two new lambda sensors as a result and couldn't source what he believed to be the correct sensors...which turned out to be a red herring. He sold me one sensor, which turned out to be blown.
Having the codes and test information is really useful though. Now it's actually running properly, I'll scan/photo the document.

One thing I have found out only this week is that one can use a blink code reader to perform component tests. It's nothing that can't be done by old school testing, but is quick and convenient as no dismantling is required.

In essence a Lexia is a Blink code reader with graphical display and can setup the test commands by using timed relay actuation. Basically, it's like Windows 3.11 working on DOS.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

User avatar
White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 5049
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: 3.0 V6-24 Project

Post by White Exec » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:00 am

xmexclusive wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:19 am
I suspect that the document needed is Dealers News Flash XM 1 No. 52. dated 21 Dec 1992.
V6 & V6 24v Oxygen Sensors.
Applies to V6-24v up to RP No. 5347.
Observation:
Unstable idling, engine misfire or hesitation and illumination of the diagnostic warning lamp.
Destruction of the oxygen sensors.
Diagnoses:
Oxygen sensors wrongly connected.
So did the cars leave the factory wrongly wired, or was the error just in service documentation?
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

Dieselman
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Re: 3.0 V6-24 Project

Post by Dieselman » Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:33 am

White Exec wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 10:00 am

So did the cars leave the factory wrongly wired, or was the error just in service documentation?
I would have thought they left the factory working, but due to the rapid rate these engines self destructed subsequent fitting of replacement engines had the sensors connected in reverse, per the Technical documentation.
I noted that in xmv6 thread, he managed to acquire one NOS genuine sensor and it didn't throw a code or put the engine management light on, even though the sensors were connected in reverse.
I suspect the early sensors simply failed to give accurate enough readings for the engine management to note there was a fault. It's possible the cars left the factory wrong and the ECU just ran in Limp Home mode, as this fault isn't supposed to set the ECM light on, which it only seems to do with later sensors.

Long story short:
Front sensor to Pin-4, Rear sensor to Pin-23 for all ZPJ4 using Fenix4.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

xmexclusive
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Re: 3.0 V6-24 Project

Post by xmexclusive » Sun Apr 21, 2019 2:24 pm

Hi Will & Chris

Sorry that it is so hard to follow through logically on these items.
These days I try to remember to reference all the sources I quote.
In part the problems were caused by the XM manual being loose leaf so content depended on how thorough the dealer custodian was.
The other was that the XM news flashes had their own binder 058930 with circulation restricted to Citroen trained mechanics only.
I have never tracked down a published index so from the number sequences my collection has gaps but no idea of the focus of the missing items.

John

User avatar
White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 5049
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: 3.0 V6-24 Project

Post by White Exec » Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:04 pm

Hi John

No need for even half an apology, John!

I think we do pretty well here, both in amassing and maintaining repair and reference data. Realise this when some other forums are browsed, where some owners (and workshops) can really struggle for info.

At least this forum exists as a repository for know-how, higgledy-piggledy though it can be sometimes. Search sometimes objects on the basics, "Too many items..."! In that respect, if something's important enough to write down and detail, then it's worth deliberately making the title (or contents) something specific and searchable, so it stands a chance of being unearthed.

Agree that source references are good too: ensures (and convinces others) you haven't made it up.

Just realised this last week was something a bit special - your own First Posts, exactly 10 years ago . . .
Click to enlarge
John's first post_1.JPG
John's first post_2.JPG
.
Nothing changes! :D
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Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

Dieselman
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Re: 3.0 V6-24 Project

Post by Dieselman » Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:01 pm

I agree with Chris, here. This situation is no-ones fault but Citroen for creating the incorrect documentation.

I'm very appreciative if any technical information that is provided, which for manufacturer items, is mainly by John.

The lack of available information is why I post findings into the thread posts, such as HT lead lengths, fuel pressure...anything that mght be useful at some stage in the future. The thread becomes a reference.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

User avatar
White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 5049
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: 3.0 V6-24 Project

Post by White Exec » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:31 pm

Bit of late checking shows some other members of The Team clocked up 10 Years this week too . . .
So not just John on Wednesday 15 April 2009, but also Paul, Dean and Peter.
Robert swiftly followed the next day, and Will and Russ not long after.

Salut! :)
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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MTXM
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Location: Aylsham Norfolk

Re: 3.0 V6-24 Project

Post by MTXM » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:42 pm

Me too Chris, in fact ten years yesterday!! With regards, Matthew T.
1989 V6 Exclusive (Poland car)
1990 V6sei auto (grey auto)
1990 V6sei manual (gold car)
1990 V6.24 Pallas (Germany car)
1990 V6.24v (Scotland car)
Other previous XM sold and broken too many to mention!

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