sageman's 'barn find' v6 sei s1

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sageman
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Re: sageman's 'barn find' v6 sei s1

Post by sageman » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:17 pm

bolt is there tight and isnt leaking
1976 Reliant kitten
1985 Reliant fox Tandy campervan
1998 Peugeot 306 GTI-6
h̶o̶p̶e̶f̶u̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶X̶M̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶d̶a̶y̶
1993 XM sei V6 RP 5876

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White Exec
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Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, Exclusive, Polar White
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Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: sageman's 'barn find' v6 sei s1

Post by White Exec » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:31 pm

Good.
Forgot - Although main high-pressure fluid out from the regulator is a metal pipe, the return to the reservoir is a plastic one, which will/should have a rubber elbow/coupling joining it to the output snout at the regulator. These rubber elbows/couplings (there are many on the car's return system) can split with age. Could be your leak???

Good that the bolt is there and tight. Under it (if it is removed), there will be a ball bearing, which seats whens the bolt is tightened. You can check it is still there (unlikely that it isn't) by removing the 12mm bolt, but be very careful not to lose the ball. Only check it as a last resort, if you can't obtain any system pressure.

First thing is to swat the leak, then ensure the pump isn't sucking in any air. If the regulator body is wet really high up, problem could be the (square-section) sphere O-ring. These don't normally give trouble, though. If elusive, dry everything off and try see where the leak originates. Access to the regulator isn't a great deal of fun.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

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jamescarruthers
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Re: sageman's 'barn find' v6 sei s1

Post by jamescarruthers » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:16 pm

Dean wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 3:24 pm
jamescarruthers wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 2:51 pm
Well done. Doing similar to you recently, I can recommend having the fuel injectors and idle bypass valve ultrasonically cleaned. I found a local guy and begged for a same day service due to rescuing an old car-- they obliged as it probably sounded more interesting to the usual stuff. Plus completely fresh petrol in the tank with the line to the engine bay flushed through with fresh petrol so as to avoid putting any old gunk in to your nice new injectors.
Have you rescued something interesting?

D
Well, yes, to me anyway! I've always loved Volvo 480's and hydraulic Citroens.
I saved the second oldest Volvo 480 left in the UK. One of the 1987 "Launch Cars" sent here for RHD testing (there is also one more launch car left, the oldest, which I used to own, down on the south coast also under restoration).

It had a hard 9 years on the road then the hinge broke on the driver's door so it was put in a lock up and forgotten about for 20 years! Link here for those interested in fake Dutch Volvo's: https://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/ ... 23&t=35570

Sorry to hijack your thread Sageman, back to your lovely XM!
1987 Volvo 480 ES
2006 Citroen C6 Exclusive 3.0 petrol/LPG

Previous XMs:
H656 BKJ XM 2.1 SED

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Re: sageman's 'barn find' v6 sei s1

Post by Dieselman » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:45 am

jamescarruthers wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:16 pm



Well, yes, to me anyway! I've always loved Volvo 480's and hydraulic Citroens.
I saved the second oldest Volvo 480 left in the UK. One of the 1987 "Launch Cars" sent here for RHD testing (there is also one more launch car left, the oldest, which I used to own, down on the south coast also under restoration).

It had a hard 9 years on the road then the hinge broke on the driver's door so it was put in a lock up and forgotten about for 20 years! Link here for those interested in fake Dutch Volvo's: https://www.volvo-480-europe.org/forum/ ... 23&t=35570
I had the first 440 sold locally and it was extremely unrelible with a great number of failures, including the drivers door breaking off at the check strap. ;)
Later cars received a reinforcement plate to stop that happening.
I was loaned a pre-release 460 for a week or two and there was a noticeable improvement in quality.

Did you know the ES stands for En-Suite...due to all the leaks... ;)
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
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90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
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Re: sageman's 'barn find' v6 sei s1

Post by Dieselman » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:56 am

sageman wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:32 pm

it started up fine some stumbling for about 10 seconds but after that nothing

the pump drained the LHM tank into the system until it was running on whatever fluid was returning and diddnt pressureise (presumably because lack of fluid)
also the pressure regulator seems to be leaking from the bottom even before i started the car

Image

i cant feel any dampness from around the pipes and its not from the bottom bolt as thats 'downhill' from where you can see the drips coming from
strangely the drips stopped once the pump started pumping
also the idle control must be stuck i unplugged it but it still idled very high

Image

those clips are they ok to be replaced with normal juberlee clips
For starting then stopping check the fuel pump relay is staying energised. It should be intitially energised via the IGN then switch to the ECU holding it on after the START signal is received.
It sounds like it is priming then failing to be held on by the ECU.

The LHM leak at the base of the regulator os probably due to the O ring drying out. It stopped once under pressure as the O ring was forced back into the groove.
Check the bottom bolt is tight as if not the bottom plate can chatter which causes the O ring to weep.

For the hose clips, I would stay with the original stainless spring clips, they work really well. Thay can be undone with either a proper tool, or some pincers.

The fast idle is either the stuck throttle plate, stuck idle control valve, or an induction leak.

That car looks to be in great condition and a worthy and relitively easy project.

The LHM level is measured using the orange mushroom between the red rings when on high setting. At rest in low mode the fluid level should be about 30mm down from full, viewed through the cap.
Fill the tank, run the engine, open the regulator bleed bolt 1/2 turn, let the pump run to prime then close the bleed bolt. If the car fails to lift check the intake pipe for tightness onto the pump and tank spigots as any air will stop the car lifting.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

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sageman
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Re: sageman's 'barn find' v6 sei s1

Post by sageman » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:42 pm

Dieselman wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:56 am
For starting then stopping check the fuel pump relay is staying energised. It should be intitially energised via the IGN then switch to the ECU holding it on after the START signal is received.
It sounds like it is priming then failing to be held on by the ECU.
you confused me here for a muinite until i reread what i wrote and saw how it might read

when i said nothing i diddnt mean it stopped but it ran fine like it haddnt been sitting for 10 years and wasnt running on 10 year old fuel

in 99% sure its the idle control valve you can stick a finger into its pipe in the air box and lower idle
which is what ive been doing as i figure either it might be running lean thinking theres less air than there is entering the engine
or im making it run rich which as far as i know is better than lean

i cleaned the preasure regulator last night and this morning there was no more drips from it
the nut on the bottom was tight i undid it a turn or two then re-tighned after todays fun theres still no sign of a leak

so as for today
i bought another litre of LHM (how much do these take anyway)
put it in the tank and ran the car

and i now have pressure although only on the lowest setting (again lack of fluid) the pressure regulator clicks for 5-10 seconds every 30-40 seconds power steering works for one turn both ways from center before getting hard and the brakes also work i now have no warning lights on the dash at all

the car goes up when i select normal hight although only the back moves the front barly moves at all i assume this is again due to lack of fluid
when i raise the car i again get low pressure warning and the steering goes

Image
no ive not cleaned it yet just the camera playing tricks
1976 Reliant kitten
1985 Reliant fox Tandy campervan
1998 Peugeot 306 GTI-6
h̶o̶p̶e̶f̶u̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶X̶M̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶d̶a̶y̶
1993 XM sei V6 RP 5876

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White Exec
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Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, Exclusive, Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime, Sable Phenicien
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: sageman's 'barn find' v6 sei s1

Post by White Exec » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:07 pm

Glad the regulator is swatted. Well done.

Some info, you might find useful... (Just checked ours here)

With the reservoir level properly checked (suspension on Highest, orange disc between red rings), this is what happens to the reservoir level as the car height is varied.
Distances are measured between fluid surface and the top edge of the filler neck (easy to check with a dipstick):

on Highest: 110mm
on Normal: 100mm
on Lowest: 85mm

An additional litre or so of fluid in the reservoir is not an issue; there is plenty of headroom. Just beware of underfilling (risk of air ingress).
LHM capacity = 5.4 L (will be less actually sitting in the reservoir).

If you need to bleed the system (done at the brake nipples (and ABS unit if Bendix)), you'll need to have handy an additional minimum of 2L of LHM, so 3L to be safe. Details of correct procedure are on the site.

If no more leaks, after the suspension has been checked, pick up some genuine Total Hydraurincage (1 x 5L will do), and run the car on that as detailed above.
The two nylon mesh reservoir filters (5 508 681 and 5271 06) are also worth renewing - Citroen parts again.
If the system is already bled, just syphon/suck out as much LHM as you can from the reservoir, and refill with the same (correct) amount of H'cage. No need to re-bleed.

Car rise time
Normal for back end to rise quicker than front - far less weight there.
Similarly, front end usually drops first when moving back to Lowest.
Front struts (pistons) and rear cylinders (to a lesser extend) can also get sticky with lack of use. Some use, and a good few Citrobics should sort it.
Hydraurincage will also make the system freer, as it progressively shifts dirt.

Pressure warning
Not unusual for there to be a dash beep and pressure warning (incl. Brake Pressure Loss) when height lever is moved from Normal to Highest, not long after the car has been started. If that's the only time it appears, don't worry about it.

Good luck this week.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

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Re: sageman's 'barn find' v6 sei s1

Post by citroenxm » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:57 pm

I would accuse the low pressure brake loss warning on height change on a weak accumulator sphere?? Because there's no reserve to assist lifting the car the pressure drops too much..
Projects:(eventually if theres any bodywork left)
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In use.. 1995 M reg S2 2.1td auto exclusive

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White Exec
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Posts: 6642
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
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1992 BX19D Millesime, Sable Phenicien
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: sageman's 'barn find' v6 sei s1

Post by White Exec » Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:03 pm

This warning can occur even when Acc sphere is 100%.
Only occurs here after a lengthy park-up (several days).
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

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sageman
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Re: sageman's 'barn find' v6 sei s1

Post by sageman » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:23 pm

Had a go at getting it run better today first I put the spring on the throttle body to where it should be improving the return of the butterfly valve Then I removed cleaned and replaced the ICV and started the car (haven’t get anymore LHM yet)
Ran fine and even until I blip the throttle then it revs up high and very slowly comes down again

So I replaced the spare ECU back with the original one guessed the code after a while of playing and started it with the same problem

So I remove the ICV again and test it
It opens and closes fine I replace it and try again
I also unplugged and plugged back in what I assume is the throttle position thing wondering if that was the problem

At this point the car runs badly and lumpy I open the throttle and it bogs and spits somewhat so I shut the engine down

I gather either it’s bad fuel or blocked filter
I diddnt plug back in throttle position sensor
Or a bad ICV

Finished up by giving it a quick hose down and a gental pressure wash sunroof appeares not to leak

Also had a bloke come up to me who live local that had a ID-19 back in the 70s
Said it bankrupted him as he was a student (uni I gather) at the time he keeps looking at it in envy
1976 Reliant kitten
1985 Reliant fox Tandy campervan
1998 Peugeot 306 GTI-6
h̶o̶p̶e̶f̶u̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶X̶M̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶d̶a̶y̶
1993 XM sei V6 RP 5876

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