in here!I noticed the trigger pin of the connector was bent over on the lower (A bank) coil, but after straightening it still wouldn't produce a spark.
I removed both coils for isolated testing: to remove the coils you need to remove the accelerator equaliser pivot.
I connected an HT lead and spark plug, connected a fly-lead to the B bank trigger/tachometer output at the diagnostic socket, disconnected both ignition amplifiers to ensure they couldn't be damaged by a back Emf spike, ensured the +ve coil terminal had good battery voltage and dragged the fly-lead over the intake manifold casting. The fly-lead was definitely making and breaking contact, demonstrated by the flashes it was making, but alas no spark produced by the coil, either to a spark plug, or an Allen key wedged into the high voltage output terminal and held very close to the engine. A direct connection like this should allow a spark to jump 10-15mm (30-45Kv), with a strong, blue spark being produced.
A weak spark will be blown out by the compression of the air when the engine is under compression.
One coil shows open circuit on the secondary winding, the other meters normally but produces no spark, so new ones are on order, Jaguar DAC4608/Marelli BEAQ012.
So I could permanently consider the crank sensor issues resolved I moved onto checking the ignition Ecu is receiving the correct timing signals from the new crank sensor.
After confirming both coils were U/s I reconnected the ignition amplifiers and connected a low wattage (0.8W) test lamp between the coil negative/trigger terminal and Gnd, cranked the engine and observed the individual spark timings make the test lamp blink on/off.
Interestingly the two coils produced different flickering, one was a definite on/off flicker, the other just dimmed the lamp instead of flickering completely off.
The new crank sensor bracket showing how a pocket had to be cut to allow the rear of the sensor to be located 10mm from the front of the timing case and the sensor to be centered on the timing fingers of the pulley and spaced in spec of 0.48-1mm clearance.
For the engine to fire it needs ignition and fuel, but even though I couldn't produce a spark I wanted to check the fuel injectors were firing, though I could smell fuel from the exhausts.
Connecting a test lamp at the injector loom showed they were being triggered by the Ecu. The injectors are fed with Ign switched +ve and the Ecu shunts this to Gnd to energise the injector. These injectors are batch fired in four groups of three, so it's only necessary to test each group.
Having tapped into the injector loom I noticed the lamp was only dimming so decided to disconnect the ballast resistor pack, which then also made a convenient point to connect to.
The lamp then had definitive on/off flashes when the Ecu pulsed the injectors. This confirmed the Efi Ecu was receiving the timing pulse from the ignition module, is operating and required no further investigation.
As the radiator and gearbox oil cooler are missing I connected the cooler pipes together with hose to avoid any further spillage of Atf.
Am now awaiting the new ignition coils and a EAC4864 fuel pressure regulator...
For info; the inlet EBC2606 fuel pressure regulator is just acting as a pulsation damper, only necessary due to the injectors being batch fired, which due to sudden demand on the reserve of fuel, causes pulsations and uneven flow, so the damper is installed to act as a small reserve/accumulator.
Injectors operating in sequential system don't need a damper due to each injector only having a small demand on the volume of pressurised fuel.
A different challenge...Not an Xm...but of course, a non-runner.
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Dieselman
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Re: A different challenge...Not an Xm...but of course, a non-runner.
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Dieselman
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Re: A different challenge...Not an Xm...but of course, a non-runner.
The coils and fuel pressure regulator arrived so I firstly installed and tested the pressure regulator, which as expected held fuel pressure at 2.5 bar when the pump stopped running.
My gauge needle has slipped a bit, so it over-reads by a few psi. I fitted the coils and turned the key, at which point the engine fired into life, running on all 12 cylinders.
I wanted to install the vacuum pipe to the ignition ecu, but also needed to check the one to the fuel ecu in the boot was connected and sound. The vacuum pipe to the boot is impossible to see as it is a steel pipe running in the top of the transmission tunnel, above the gearbox and shrouding.
I rigged up a smoke tester made from a pickle jar, glow-plug, cotton rag steeped in engine oil, battery charger running on 6v and an air brush compressor. Seeing smoke exiting the vacuum ports on the intake manifold and no unexpected leaks, was proof all was fine.
I had noted the oil pressure gauge wasn't registering any pressure and thought it was odd there was no oil pressure warning lamp...
I connected the pressure gauge sender wire to engine Gnd through a test lamp and the gauge read full pressure: on checking I found the oil pressure switch was disconnected. Shunting this wire to Gnd should have illuminated the warning lamp, but it still didn't. I tested the switch using a test lamp, which proved it to be functioning, so that requires further diagnosis.
Concerned the engine had no oil pressure I checked the cam chain, via the oil filler, which showed it was dry. The dipstick showed the oil level to be close to Maximum.
These engines use an external pressure relief valve which are known for sticking open, so I disconnected the return pipe and connected a drain. Upon cranking the engine no oil flowed from the drain, so I removed the filter to see if any oil was being pumped into it. I noted the filter was dry, so no oil had flowed since the engine was installed into this car.
A quick crank confirmed no oil was flowing. I drained the oil to confirm the volume which was just over 8.5 litres. 10 litres is the maximum, so the sump was sufficiently full.
I removed the rear sump, checked the intake strainer and pump exit pipe were clear, filled a container with oil and immersed the pickup in it and cranked the engine, seeing no suction/flow at all.
It appears the crankshaft driven oil pump isn't turning at all and am confident the woodruff key that drives the pump has sheared.
These pumps fit round the crankshaft inside the front of the engine and access means engine and gearbox removal and splitting, remove the full sump, all ancillaries, intake manifolds, cam-case covers, timing case, timing chains, timing drive sprockets, at which point the pump can be unbolted from the front of the engine block.
The reason these woodruff keys shear is due to the oil pump drive gear being a sliding fit onto the crankshaft and key. The gear frets the key to the point it wears it enough to shatter it.
If the drive gear was an interference fit it wouldn't fret the key. A larger key, or two offset keys, might also have stopped this happening.
This project is now over for me: the long term plan is to rebuild the cars original engine and re-install it, as buying replacement engines is unlikely to provide one that is useable.
My gauge needle has slipped a bit, so it over-reads by a few psi. I fitted the coils and turned the key, at which point the engine fired into life, running on all 12 cylinders.
I wanted to install the vacuum pipe to the ignition ecu, but also needed to check the one to the fuel ecu in the boot was connected and sound. The vacuum pipe to the boot is impossible to see as it is a steel pipe running in the top of the transmission tunnel, above the gearbox and shrouding.
I rigged up a smoke tester made from a pickle jar, glow-plug, cotton rag steeped in engine oil, battery charger running on 6v and an air brush compressor. Seeing smoke exiting the vacuum ports on the intake manifold and no unexpected leaks, was proof all was fine.
I had noted the oil pressure gauge wasn't registering any pressure and thought it was odd there was no oil pressure warning lamp...
I connected the pressure gauge sender wire to engine Gnd through a test lamp and the gauge read full pressure: on checking I found the oil pressure switch was disconnected. Shunting this wire to Gnd should have illuminated the warning lamp, but it still didn't. I tested the switch using a test lamp, which proved it to be functioning, so that requires further diagnosis.
Concerned the engine had no oil pressure I checked the cam chain, via the oil filler, which showed it was dry. The dipstick showed the oil level to be close to Maximum.
These engines use an external pressure relief valve which are known for sticking open, so I disconnected the return pipe and connected a drain. Upon cranking the engine no oil flowed from the drain, so I removed the filter to see if any oil was being pumped into it. I noted the filter was dry, so no oil had flowed since the engine was installed into this car.
A quick crank confirmed no oil was flowing. I drained the oil to confirm the volume which was just over 8.5 litres. 10 litres is the maximum, so the sump was sufficiently full.
I removed the rear sump, checked the intake strainer and pump exit pipe were clear, filled a container with oil and immersed the pickup in it and cranked the engine, seeing no suction/flow at all.
It appears the crankshaft driven oil pump isn't turning at all and am confident the woodruff key that drives the pump has sheared.
These pumps fit round the crankshaft inside the front of the engine and access means engine and gearbox removal and splitting, remove the full sump, all ancillaries, intake manifolds, cam-case covers, timing case, timing chains, timing drive sprockets, at which point the pump can be unbolted from the front of the engine block.
The reason these woodruff keys shear is due to the oil pump drive gear being a sliding fit onto the crankshaft and key. The gear frets the key to the point it wears it enough to shatter it.
If the drive gear was an interference fit it wouldn't fret the key. A larger key, or two offset keys, might also have stopped this happening.
This project is now over for me: the long term plan is to rebuild the cars original engine and re-install it, as buying replacement engines is unlikely to provide one that is useable.
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92 2.1 sd M. 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
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xantia_v6
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Re: A different challenge...Not an Xm...but of course, a non-runner.
The V12 oil pump is not very good at self-priming if it has got dry, did you try priming it from either end?
I have heard of the crank pulley fretting the key and keyway if the pulley bolt is not tight, I don't recall hearing of the oil pump drive doing it. The oil pump has much less drag (and inertia) than the ancillaries driven by the pulley.
I believe that in general the machining tolerances in the engines deteriorated through the 1980s due to aging tooling and machine tools in the factory.
I have heard of the crank pulley fretting the key and keyway if the pulley bolt is not tight, I don't recall hearing of the oil pump drive doing it. The oil pump has much less drag (and inertia) than the ancillaries driven by the pulley.
I believe that in general the machining tolerances in the engines deteriorated through the 1980s due to aging tooling and machine tools in the factory.
1999 XM Exclusive V6 24V ES9 Manual (LHD) 115,000 km
1997 Xantia Exclusive V6 (RHD) 51,000 miles
1997 Xantia Exclusive V6 (RHD) 51,000 miles
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Dieselman
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Re: A different challenge...Not an Xm...but of course, a non-runner.
Firstly, thank you xantia-v6 for your insight regarding pump priming on these engines.
I had attempted to create vacuum at the pump outlet side, but hadn't been able to make a good enough seal at the oil filter fill port.
I had already checked the pump suction strainer was not blocked.
Having already considered over-filling the engine oil to at least lubricate the crank bearings and now armed with your knowledge of poor pump priming, over-filling seemed a reasonable idea.
I refitted the sump with a new gasket, both mating surfaces having a smear of Hylomar blue, non-setting, gasket sealant applied.
I then jacked up the rear of the car and placed two wheels under the rear wheels to tilt the car forwards.
As the oil pickup is at the rear of the sump and the pump is at the front of the engine, about 100mm higher than the pickup, it wasn't helping that one rear tyre was flat as that was causing the front to be higher.
After the rear wheels were raised the engine was tilting slightly forwards, which was good for purging air from the oil pump pipes and providing a gradual downward run to the pump, thus ensuring that it would partially fill given sufficient depth of oil in the sump. I had measured the dipstick projection into the sump and found it to be approximately 150mm below the centre of the crankshaft.
I added eight litres back into the sump, which gave a level of about 35mm up the dipstick, so I added another four litres...then another four litres...and another four...
iirc, the total depth of oil on the dipstick was about 110mm.
My original thought was to fill the engine enough to cause oil to run out of the filter feed port, but that required even more oil be added, so I decided to not do that.
I wanted the oil pump to have minimum resistance to flow so it could readily purge air, so left the oil filter off.
Using the key, I "bumped" the starter in very short bursts to see if there was any untoward issues from the excess oil. After about 15 short bursts I let the starter spin the engine for several seconds, after which there was oil in the catch tray positioned under the open oil filter housing, which told me the pump had primed.
The oil filter housing was now wet, so I filled the filter, and installed it. As the oil pressure warning lamp isn't functioning I connected a test lamp to the sender and cranked the engine, but the lamp stayed illuminated, so I fired the engine and the lamp went out after several seconds.
After a few running cycles I drained about 9 litres of excess oil from the sump.
For information I used 5W/30 synthetic oil, mainly due to availability, but also because it does meet the specification for these engines, though long term I think 5w-10w/40 might be more suitable.
To the best of my knowledge, as a general rule, mineral oil has to be a grade heavier to provide the same protection as a synthetic oil.
The original specification for general ambient temperatures between -20c and 10c is 10w/30/40/50, and for ambient temperatures above 10c the specification was 15W/40 to 20W/50.
The recommended oil was Castrol Gtx, which is a fairly basic mineral oil, so afaik, synthetic of lower viscosity will provide better protection and quicker cold start protection.
The issue with using a heavier oil is it often won't reach a high enough temperature to be in it's operating range, so will accumulate petroleum distillates and cause black carbon build up.
My understanding is if one is driving in warm temperatures and very hard, you need to use a heavy weight oil, but for general driving, a lighter weight (within reason) is better as it encourages rapid circulation, has a greater cooling thermal transfer rate and improved engine cleanliness.
Carbon build up is also attributed to oil being overheated, which is an area synthetic oils excel over mineral based ones.
If my understanding is incorrect, I'm happy to hear that.
Workshop manual oil specification. p.s. When originally finding the oil pump wasn't drawing oil I had already checked the crank pulley bolt was torqued to 200Nm (150 lb.ft).
I had attempted to create vacuum at the pump outlet side, but hadn't been able to make a good enough seal at the oil filter fill port.
I had already checked the pump suction strainer was not blocked.
Having already considered over-filling the engine oil to at least lubricate the crank bearings and now armed with your knowledge of poor pump priming, over-filling seemed a reasonable idea.
I refitted the sump with a new gasket, both mating surfaces having a smear of Hylomar blue, non-setting, gasket sealant applied.
I then jacked up the rear of the car and placed two wheels under the rear wheels to tilt the car forwards.
As the oil pickup is at the rear of the sump and the pump is at the front of the engine, about 100mm higher than the pickup, it wasn't helping that one rear tyre was flat as that was causing the front to be higher.
After the rear wheels were raised the engine was tilting slightly forwards, which was good for purging air from the oil pump pipes and providing a gradual downward run to the pump, thus ensuring that it would partially fill given sufficient depth of oil in the sump. I had measured the dipstick projection into the sump and found it to be approximately 150mm below the centre of the crankshaft.
I added eight litres back into the sump, which gave a level of about 35mm up the dipstick, so I added another four litres...then another four litres...and another four...
iirc, the total depth of oil on the dipstick was about 110mm.
My original thought was to fill the engine enough to cause oil to run out of the filter feed port, but that required even more oil be added, so I decided to not do that.
I wanted the oil pump to have minimum resistance to flow so it could readily purge air, so left the oil filter off.
Using the key, I "bumped" the starter in very short bursts to see if there was any untoward issues from the excess oil. After about 15 short bursts I let the starter spin the engine for several seconds, after which there was oil in the catch tray positioned under the open oil filter housing, which told me the pump had primed.
The oil filter housing was now wet, so I filled the filter, and installed it. As the oil pressure warning lamp isn't functioning I connected a test lamp to the sender and cranked the engine, but the lamp stayed illuminated, so I fired the engine and the lamp went out after several seconds.
After a few running cycles I drained about 9 litres of excess oil from the sump.
For information I used 5W/30 synthetic oil, mainly due to availability, but also because it does meet the specification for these engines, though long term I think 5w-10w/40 might be more suitable.
To the best of my knowledge, as a general rule, mineral oil has to be a grade heavier to provide the same protection as a synthetic oil.
The original specification for general ambient temperatures between -20c and 10c is 10w/30/40/50, and for ambient temperatures above 10c the specification was 15W/40 to 20W/50.
The recommended oil was Castrol Gtx, which is a fairly basic mineral oil, so afaik, synthetic of lower viscosity will provide better protection and quicker cold start protection.
The issue with using a heavier oil is it often won't reach a high enough temperature to be in it's operating range, so will accumulate petroleum distillates and cause black carbon build up.
My understanding is if one is driving in warm temperatures and very hard, you need to use a heavy weight oil, but for general driving, a lighter weight (within reason) is better as it encourages rapid circulation, has a greater cooling thermal transfer rate and improved engine cleanliness.
Carbon build up is also attributed to oil being overheated, which is an area synthetic oils excel over mineral based ones.
If my understanding is incorrect, I'm happy to hear that.
Workshop manual oil specification. p.s. When originally finding the oil pump wasn't drawing oil I had already checked the crank pulley bolt was torqued to 200Nm (150 lb.ft).
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xantia_v6
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Re: A different challenge...Not an Xm...but of course, a non-runner.
Great news that you got the oïl circulating.
I have only used old fashioned 20W50 in mine.
Do you know that the warning light switch is 2psi, where just about every other engine has a 4psi (or higher) threshold. This is because some engines (from the factory) struggled to make 4psi at idle when hot, and Jaguar changed the switch specification to avoid warranty claims.
I have only used old fashioned 20W50 in mine.
Do you know that the warning light switch is 2psi, where just about every other engine has a 4psi (or higher) threshold. This is because some engines (from the factory) struggled to make 4psi at idle when hot, and Jaguar changed the switch specification to avoid warranty claims.
1999 XM Exclusive V6 24V ES9 Manual (LHD) 115,000 km
1997 Xantia Exclusive V6 (RHD) 51,000 miles
1997 Xantia Exclusive V6 (RHD) 51,000 miles
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Dieselman
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Re: A different challenge...Not an Xm...but of course, a non-runner.
LOL.
There is no radiator installed as the fault was the viscous fan coupling broke and sent the fan through it, hence the original engine badly overheated, so I can't yet run the engine to full temp.
Unfortunately, over the years a number of parts have gone missing, hence delays in it going back together.
I'm aware of discussions regarding oil viscosity and believe 20W/50 is too viscous for general use. If driving hard in the Sahara desert, or hot months of India, it would be correct, but it is rated for ambient temps above 40c and wont heat into its operating range.
Total oils give a good breakdown of which oils to use which would suggest a lighter viscosity.
When I have time I'll look it up.
There is no radiator installed as the fault was the viscous fan coupling broke and sent the fan through it, hence the original engine badly overheated, so I can't yet run the engine to full temp.
Unfortunately, over the years a number of parts have gone missing, hence delays in it going back together.
I'm aware of discussions regarding oil viscosity and believe 20W/50 is too viscous for general use. If driving hard in the Sahara desert, or hot months of India, it would be correct, but it is rated for ambient temps above 40c and wont heat into its operating range.
Total oils give a good breakdown of which oils to use which would suggest a lighter viscosity.
When I have time I'll look it up.
91 3.0 sei M. 4852 EXY Black
92 2.1 sed M. 5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24. 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1 sd M. 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1sd M. 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1sd A. 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1sd A. 6218 ERT Triton
91 2.0si M. 5187 EWT White
92 2.1 sed M. 5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24. 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1 sd M. 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1sd M. 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1sd A. 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1sd A. 6218 ERT Triton
91 2.0si M. 5187 EWT White