Petition to PSA against dropping hydropneumatic suspension

[casalingua]

But what drives depreciation? It is the combination of actual future costs and the expectation of them derived from this. If the manufacturer can allay the worry of future costs, then this feeds into resale values. Good warranties, affordable spares and durability are the keystones of this. The XM lost value because people came to view them as unreliable and thus expected a discount to offset future costs.

[White Exec]

And the 605 the same? Depreciation on this was actually worse.

[casalingua]

That´s a good question. Perhaps the 604´s reputation went ahead of the 605s and laid groundwork for the 605s poor performance. Perhaps the 605 just wasn´t all that desirable compared to the competition. There are lots of factors.

[Charles M]

Not to worry it looks like VW have been testing sinking hydropneumatic suspension, I saw a test mule today at Bicester Village on a high performance Golf R no less:

[Ciaran]

Very good Charles

Ciarán

[Charles M]

By the time the XM was launched, it was too late for any French big car. I met someone the other day who had been a fleet car manager in the late 70s and he mentioned having 9 CXs on the fleet, which he loved to drive, but at one stage 4 were in for gearbox issues and they were too unreliable. Remember this is the era when British cars were being destroyed as an ownership proposition too by German and Japanese cars - the latter not in the executive market.

I have two XMs, and I have owned numerous top end executive cars. Having driven both, the luxury of the XM is unquestionable for ride and its handling is great. But ride is not the only factor in luxury, and in terms of material quality and perceived quality, it never stood a chance against similarly priced executive cars. BMW was nowhere in the 60s, but could build some serious sixes because Germany never discriminated against large engines fiscally, and it understood that the whole driving experience was important. Plus probably the finest marketing campaign for cars ever carried out. Meanwhile engine output taxes crucified the luxury French car business - Delage, Delahaye, Talbot Lago & Facel Vega all went under and to be honest Citroen were never in that league anyway.

Peugeot Citroen, like Renault (who are in serious mess) make great medium to small cars with the best diesel engines in existence. They have been doing what they have done well since the 60s, making a small engine exceptionally efficient.

As to parts, it's only recently that VW and BMW have launched classic parts businesses. Manufacturers are simply assembly operations now anyway, and if the suppliers don't bother for lack of a market, the manufacturer hasn't got a chance of so doing. My worry is not the hydraulics, no problem even now in getting kit for the SM, it is the 90s electronics that are going to become impossible to find, and I doubt it is just going to be Citroen alone that suffers this, but there are so few of them that any parts are never going to be economical to produce. Time to think about a list of difficult to source parts and explore alternatives?

[White Exec]

I like the sunken Golf. Strangely, the registration plate seems to speak the kind of sound escaping fluid would make...

[White Exec]

CRITICAL NLS at CITROEN COMPONENTS
Charles makes some important points here. Not least
"Time to think about a list of difficult to source parts and explore alternatives?"

John has given this some serious thought, too. Some of his conclusions look pretty depressing, and point towards cars no longer being able to run. The availability/serviceability of certain components is obviously crucial, as there may be no realistic way to find a "work-around".

I'm not sure whether this has been done before, but perhaps this is a good time for us to do just what Charles suggests, and to give everything on the list our best attention, to see how we might cope.

The "Action" recommended might simply be Obtain Secondhand in some cases. Or a specialist repairer. Or a compatible part. Or alternative supplier. Or a component rebuild. Or Removal/by-passing.

for starters...

Front strut tops
ECUs
Headlight fresnels
. . .

Others will be better at adding to this list than me. The list should be 'pinned' and added to and updated continually, with one/two knowledgeable members responsible for its contents. John, I'm really not volunteering you, really. This information will eventually be a cornerstone of our Club's future, as we move into a long period when certain crucial parts are just not available.

[russ92xmsed]

Great idea.
Even if it comes to sourcing alternative parts that do work. I'm thinking seals ect. And procedures of treating tired parts, like the headlight fresnels.
Just touching on the subject of ABS sensors, in particular Bendix...Jaap did find a chap who can make them. But, I might be wrong here, it came down to the plastic casing having to be recreated. I would assume a 3d printer could do this, by simply scanning an original sensor.
What I am trying to say is.... some thinking outside the box for certian things might be the solution.

[captainhaddock]

Our French XM friends, http://www.stylexm.fr/index.php have come to that conclusion already. Stocking up difficult parts and finding ways of making them new. I don't have the details, only this info.

Thankfully I'm not worried yet for strut tops. ECU's can be remade and even advanced, at cost. Headlights, I'll hang on to my spares. Exhausts can be remade. Hydraulics can be overhauled or partly remade. It's the Bendix ABS sensors that are worrying me. It'll be interesting to see how many XM's ultimately will survive. But I currently just keep them as daily drivers. They are still quite capable in doing so. Without too much hassle, yet.

I agree completely with John as regards to the survey but I have signed it, and hope you all will. After all, author is right.
Anyway, my XM's leave me with some more years of driving pleasure hopefully, to contemplate my next move on the daily driver issue.
Interestingly, similar cars that have already been mentioned, have crossed my mind as well. It won't be a citroen, sadly. (or maybe some super good XM or Xantia Hdi finds it's way to me:)

In the mean time, enjoy driving those XM's as much as possible. Before it'll be forbidden to drive cars older than ....x.... years.