Garages who will still touch XMs - North Cheshire / Manchester area

[mwj666]

All,

Any suggestions as to garages (probably only the specialists now) in North Cheshire or South/SouthWest Manchester who will still touch ES9J4 engined XMs?

My Mk2 V6 24V Exclusive is kinda in need of a timing belt change (only 30k miles since swap but that was 19 years ago which is I think VERY well past age replacement??). I know there's plenty of 'how to' guides out there and I even have the Citroen workshop printout but, 50 years of DIYing notwithstanding, I'm chickening out on this one, for one thing I'm not sure if it had the later belt tensioner fitted at the last belt change (so it doesn't need the electronic tension gauge) or, if not, which bit of the water pump housing needs hacksawing off to enable one to be fitted

Contacted my local (non franchise) Citroen 'specialist' and he won't touch it, my 'franchise' dealer is no longer a Citroen dealer per se, it was bought out by Inchcape, so I bet they won't touch it either - and I'm not sure I'd trust them with it anyway tbh

Also - does anyone know if the ES9J4 is a non-interference engine just in case the unthinkable happens and the damn' belt breaks before I can get it swapped? According to DVLA there's only 17 V6 exclusives left on the road so it'd be a shame to write off another one

Thanks all

[Dieselman]

There is the Citroen Repair Centre in Stockport, 0161 432 0636.
That engine is a bit more common than you might think, it is used in various Peugeot and Renaults, as well as Citroens, so I would think most garages could tackle a timing belt job.

You also have specialist Citroen and Peugeot parts specialists in Manchester, so obtainintg the correct parts should be pretty straightforward.

Many garages and Tyre fitting centres offer timing belt replacement, but not having done a Es9J (Xfz) engine, I have looked through the Citroen guide and it appears pretty straightforward, so I would just do it myself.

Citroen Private Car books, pages 102-106.
download/file.php?id=10687

All engine tightening torques are given, belt components on Page 48.

As far as tensioning goes, if there is no reference or automatic adjustment on the tensioning pulley, just go for twisting the belt 90 degrees, on the longest run, using firm finger & thumb pressure. Too tight and the belt will hum, too loose and it will flap.

I can't see any modern engine being non-interference, compression ratios and valve open times are too large for that.

Either set the engine to Tdc, lock the crank and cams, or mark up the crank, all cam sprockets and the belt, then transfer the marks to the new belt, you can't go wrong.
I would always lock the crank and cams for absolute accuracy. If you don't have suitable pins, use drill bit shanks.
Just ensure you turn the engine by hand for at least two full turns after fitting the belt. Always turn in multiples of two turns and only in the forward direction, using the crank sprocket. Never turn by the camshaft, or backwards.

Access appears somewhat better than a 2.1td, due to the V6 being a shorter engine than the 4 cylinder.
Compared to a standard 4 cylinder there are two additional idler pulleys and two more cam pulleys, but the rest is the same.

Here is a detailed video, though it is the later engine fitted with variable Valve timing, so you can skip that step.
The cams have vernier adjustment, so just loosen the sprocket bolts and insert the pins to lock the cam, then with the belt fitted, engine turned at least two turns, tensioner set, tighten the cam sprocket bolts.
This allows the tensioner to take up the slack in the belt, whilst ensuring the cams are set exactly correct. If the cam sprockets weren't allowed to move, the tensioner taking up slack could pull the cams to being slightly retarded.
In reality it's just a manufacturing tolerance item as all cam belts are 3/8" pitch, so the cams would be set by the belt pitch, but having fixed cam sprockets makes it harder to fit the new belt, as it needs to be under tension.

As long as the engine can turn over by hand, you can't cause any damage. Turn it over 2 turns, check alignment, tighten up,



There is only one way to gain knowledge and experience of any job...actually do the job.

[citroenxm]

Psa have never made a clearence engine.

If your not keen still to not do it yourself then it may be worth a trip up to hapton near blackburn to savoy garage.. he is a citroen specialist.

[xantia_v6]

The later tensioner is much easier to deal with, so should be fitted. It does require adjusting, but it is a simple visual adjustment.

If you buy a new tensioner and water pump (of the December 1999 type), then you know that everything will fit.

I have changed 7 or 8 ES9 timing belts on my various cars, and it is not difficult, but finding the right spanners to make the job easier is half the battle. The other trick is to have a jack onder the engine and raise and lower the engine +/- 50mm to give access to whichever fastener you are working on.

It is a good idea to check that there are no oil leaks around the top of the engine, as to redo the sealant on the cam support blocks requires timing belt removal.

[mwj666]

Thanks all for your responses - afraid I've been very 'otherwise engaged' of late so only just got back to this

Thinking I may 'bite the bullet' and try it myself - it wouldn't be the first timing belt I've done but the others weren't this fiendish

I do have a couple of quesstions though if anyone can enlighten me:

1. As far as I know it's still got the original extremely fiddly tensioner fitted. If I want to swap it for the later version off the Mk2 ES9J4 engine I believe a lug has to be removed from the water pump, can anyone confirm if this is the case and if so where it is (photo greatly appreciated if possible)

2. The Citroen workshop process seems to use two different tools for locking/checking the cams: 0187B which is a single diameter (8mm?) pin for when replacing the belt and 0187CZ which is a two-diameter stepped pin for checking the timing on completion. This implies that the hole in the block is slightly smaller than the hole in the cam pulley so is the second tool essential for getting the valve timing spot on?

I'm not planning on replacing the idler pulleys or water pump as, from what I can gather, these are so robust that they are good for at least the full lifespan of 2 timing belts (140k+), the car's only just coming up to 100k and tbh it's unlikely to reach 140k in the foreseeable future as it's only used as my 'high days and holidays' car

Many thanks again,
Martin

[citroenxm]

DO change the water pump at least. It really would be silly not too and could very well start to leak after being disturbed. Yes correct there is a tab that needs removing for it to fit. They aren't too hard to do. As everything is pinned up .. I did a belt on a xantia v6 once and it did have signs of leaking.