Hello From Richard

[Richard]

The BX a go-cart. Yes, well I guess it is by todays standards. But I came straight from a GS Pallas at 1300cc to a 1.9TD DTR, and man did that ever go.

The first time I drove that DTR I was convinced, this is the car for me! Now I get into my wife's XM 2.1 and well, does it get any better.

I get from the 2.1 what I had expected from the C5. Another cost saving series of cut downs perhaps.

I understand these common rail diesels are really only a re-working of the standard XUD engines with an always on low pressure turbo.

My C5 was the 110 bhp model, and it was disappointing, to say the least! Had we bought a later model, say 2003/4/5 it might have been so much different but as it was, recalls and warranty fixes showed just how much the car had been rushed into the show rooms. Not like Citroen at all in my experience, but well in keeping with the American outfit that now owns Citroen Peugeot PSA.

On one occasion my wife was heading over to Staffordshire in the A14 in a torrential rain storm in the darkness of an early winter evening, just started to overtake in the fast lane and her head lights cut out. She hit the stalk and that failed to respond too! She was left at 90+ with no lights in the darkness. Main dealer replaced the sensor, and it happened again, to me. That was the last straw. Technology had gone too far!

[Peter.N.]

Ah right', I have not compared those, teach me to read the thread properly.

[xmexclusive]

Hi Richard

Paul is a little biased and cannot see past the steering wheel on an XM with an airbag.
My collection are all Mk2's and has been for some years now as I find they are better cars in every respect.
A personal view of course not a technical fact or a proven maintenance difference.
In practice there is very little difference in the potential reliability and maintenance problems that you will get with comparable Mk1 and Mk2 cars.
The big difference comes in the actual condition of individual cars whatever model and age they are. This is the bit that is so difficult to determine until after you have bought it and start to see the downsides of that particular car by using it, or trying to, plenty of lemons looking for a buyer out there. XM's are all old cars now, reasonably well used but usually low priced to reflect this. The glut of secondhand Mk1's was a few years ago and we are well through the same process for Mk2's. For that reason only it may be easier to find a good Mk2 than a good Mk1. Very low mileage cars seem to attract unusually high prices simply because Citroen XM's have a much larger following than most old cars. I happen to believe that paying a substantial premium for ultra low mileage is not worth it. In the same way I think that most high mileage diesel XM's (200k plus) often attain a price unjustifed by the general worn out state of the rest of the car. Full service history is also often overstated in value particularly once the car has passed 150k.
Hope that helps put a slightly different slant on things to help you in your search. Just remember that good as well as bad XM's are still comming up for sale so you are unlikely to loose out completely just because you turn the first few down. Treat each enquiry and viewing as part of the learning curve in how to sum up an XM and spot the faults and potential problems.

John

[Richard]

John, our S2 2.1 has (I looked yesterday) 262,000 on the clock, but it's absolutely pristine inside and runs like a dream.

Got a few niggles, like the window and one or two other things, but nothing great.

I take on board all you've said, and will use it when I'm looking around.

Yep, I am on the look out for a nice 2.1 for me, and just hope the funds catch up with my ambitions

[citroenxm]

Hmmmmm ok well both have plusses and minuses...

S1 to 1991 - IE: Plug in Earths are the cars that gave us the poor electrics..

But if you go for a 1993 to 1994 SERIES ONE - Know as Series 1.5's by us, you'll get the Bolt on EARTHS! And many problems gone

Its the S2 cars from 1995 that seem to suffer the elctro valves failures.. and early cars suffer because of the earths, I seem to have recalled that the most reliable elctrovalves were in the S1.5 cars - 1992 to 1994..

S1 - Originalilty - Single spoke steering wheel UP TO 1992 or so! Proper spoiler which it was designed for..V6's PRV's awfull for starter problems! Turbo Petrols, noisy in the cabin, thrashey sounding engine.. DERV's Not driven enough of them but Early DERVs, 1991 to 1994 can allow a lot of vibration into the cab through steering etc etc.. BUT a refined lump when cruising! DERV's most reliable, but geting one!! Most have huge miles and have gone.. Next most reliable was 2.oi Turbo.. V6's make a good noise but you need to be spanner handy!

SERIES 2: A much more refined car.. Same engines but the addition of the 16v 2.oi Engines which are apparently quite good!! BETTER sound insulation, Radio Locking instead of IR Plip, Lower spec generally but ONLY in the small areas... Leather rarer in S2 cars, but CAN be adapted from a S1 car.. Side impact beams..
Addition also of the AMAZING 2.5 TD 12v unit! And much better engine mounts making for much MORE refined DERV engines.. Lucas EPIC can be a pain, better Bosch Mechanical unit which can be found from about 1992 onwards.. First batch of S1 cars has Plastic inlet manifolds and Lucas Mechanical..

For reliability, go for a S2 car, try get Bosch.. if you dont mind a hard ride too... Or if you are ok with a bit of spannering go for a LATE s1.5 car, L or M reg years...

Regards
Paul

[xmexclusive]

Hi Richard

I suspect that the condition of your 2.1 is the exception rather than typical. I was trying to make the point that regular maintenance and repair keeps a car going in roadworthy condition but it does not return it to as new. When buying I try to assess the likely residual life cost so tend to do a price/mileage run/current condition/work needed combination in my head before I buy it anyway if I really take a fancy to it.

John

[Richard]

John I take your point entirely. I'm thinking my wife's 2.1 is the exception rather than the rule.

When we bought this car there was a W plate 2.1 saloon manual with a shade over 100,000 on the clock. Silver. The garage had already sold it for £5,000. Lot of money, but from what I could see and hear with the engine running, it was just superb.

Like you, when I saw our 2.1, I did similar checks and worked out what it would cost be to keep it going for another year, maybe two.

Although the mileage on ours is very high, I did receive the garage and service bills for all of this car's life, much of which was done by the garage we bought it from. Those things I would expect trouble from on such a high mileage car had been replaced - wheel bearings, clutch etc., so, although under pressure from my wife to buy it, I still felt it was going to be a good buy at the price.

[Peter.N.]

Hi Richard

The thing about the 2.1 though is that it will just go on and on, the last one I sold had done 292k and the clutch was just beginning to slip if pushed hard, as far as know the only major job that had been done was a replacement head gasket.

Of the cars I have now, the green estate had done 114k when I bought it, in the first 10k I had to replace the head gasket and water pump, its now done 195k and has given me virtually no trouble.

The black hatch had done 177k but had a replacment engine at 100k - no idea why! but the clutch thrust bearing had broken, I intended to fit a new clutch but in the event only changed the bearing as the clutch was almost unworn.

The red estate my son drives had done about 220k, now about 250k but it also has had a replacement engine as the previous owner managed to cross thread and injector - its a long story. That one has caused a few problems, first the bolt fell out of the steering ram thus ripping the pipes off - not an easy job, and on two occaisions he managed to rip a couple of hydraulic pipes off by driving at speed through flood water. Having fixed those bits it has been no trouble for about the last 20k.

The white estate is a real low miler with only 149k on the clock and drives beautifuly apart from the lack of ABS and not very efficient parking brake, I'm in the process of overhauling it now with a view to getting it MOT'd.

These are all Mk2s, the first ones I had were Mk1s and I had a load of trouble with them, but to be fair, a lot of it was electrical, which would have been fixed by now, and some due to my lack of knowledge as the cars hadn't been out very long.

One thing I will say in favour of Mk1's is that the bodys seem to last better, or at least on the ones I've seen lately, none of my Mk2s have serious rust but a couple of them are fraying a bit around the edges.

Peter

[Richard]

Just another thought about the 'go-cart.'

Way back in the early nineties, my first wife and I were fostering a twelve year old boy. He was violent, supposedly dyslexic, etc.... all the nasties. But had a bent toward anything mechanical.

A good friend of mine and I bought two write-off Dyanes, one of which had been made into a make-shift camper for a trip across Morrocco. Over winter, we used a farmers barn, workshop and pit, dismantled these cars and, with a lot of glue-stick work, made one! Not so clever, so far.

David, the lad, was given two engines on blocks, a Haynes Manual and told to buy what he needed to get an engine working. He re-installed an engine in the good car, wired it up, and it started second time. 50,000 miles later, after I'd used the car, sold it, bought it back, given it to David to pass his test on, run across ploughed fields and generally abused it, I sold it again, and until mid-ninety six, it was running around the town we lived in. The engine was just fine.

That lad went on to take a degree in automotive engineering and currently works in Bavaria for BMW as an automotive design engineer. All it took was patience, kindness and an old 2CV. Bit of a back handed credit for the 2CV.

If ever there was a go cart, it was the 2CV