Running lights

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White Exec
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Re: Running lights

Post by White Exec » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:29 am

Lose count here of the number of drivers who run through the entire length of long and dimly-lit motorway tunnels, with no external lights switched on.

And this is despite no shortage of "visual clues"
- virtual night-time conditions
- other vehicles' headlights in front and at the side
- vehicle headlights in the rear view mirror
- almost no view of the road in front, road markings or tunnel kerbs
- good signage (Lights!) at the tunnel entrance
- more signage when leaving the tunnel (Lights?) reminding them of where they've just been.

Stupidity? Ignorance? A deliberate two-fingers attitude? Or oblivious to road and traffic conditions?
Whichever, grounds for a driving ban.
Sorry, but I just can't see an excuse for persistently driving like this.
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Jan-hendrik
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Re: Running lights

Post by Jan-hendrik » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:38 am

One of my biggest gripes, lazy idiots that sit at traffic lights with their foot on the foot brake. It seems as if hardly anyone these days dares to put the hand brake on and select neutral.
This is very common here in Japan. The biggest reason is not laziness, but the fact most cars now are automatics and more and more of them have automatic stop-start engine systems. Make a stop, even a very short one, the engine switches off. Lift your foot off the brake and the engine starts in an instant and off you go.
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Ciaran
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Re: Running lights

Post by Ciaran » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:56 am

Dieselman wrote:
raynoon wrote: Plus, if you’re not aware they you’re driving a motor vehicle without headlights during the hours of darkness then I’m sorry but you shouldn’t be in control of such a vehicle.

Ray.
I once did it in one of my XM's years ago, due to the dashboard being permenantly illuminated.
I must admit, I too have done that a few times in the Series 1 due to the permanent illumination :oops:

I find in the C6 for example, that even the most basic functions are automated to the point of ridiculousness. Automatic wipers - for people who are too dopey to realise its raining. Automatic lights - for people who are too lazy to use a switch, Parking sensors, for people who never learned to manoeuvre in and out of spaces, Doors that lock themselves - for people who are just begging to get hijacked, irritating seatbelt alarms warnings which incessantly remind you that its undesirable to go head first through the windscreen - in case you forgot. Traction Control / ASR system which flashes up nanny state warnings and other bollox if you happen to nip out of a junction that little bit too quickly, and god forbid, induce a tiny bit of wheel spin.

Some of this stuff is good of course, i.e it safeguards other road users by turning on things like the lights if the driver is too vacant to do so, but I think modern cars generally are creating legions of drivers who are going to suffer badly from skill fade because by relying so heavily on the car to perform all these functions for them, they don't know what to do if, shock horror, those electronic aids aren't working for some reason. With the changes to the driving test, statutory agencies now seem to be actively encouraging this reliance on technology rather than ensuring drivers have the basic skills required to safely operate a vehicle. Removing the 3 point turn and parking space manouvres, in favour of being able to listen to a satnav, seriously?? Is it any wonder you see so many newer cars with dinged bumpers and scrapes down the side, can't park to save their lives, but hey they can interpret the satnav's instructions with the utmost clarity as it directs them over a cliff or down a ditch somewhere! :lol:

It's gone to a whole new level now where you have the likes of automated braking if you get too close to the car in front, again, all well and good when its working, but will this current generation of drivers know what to do if the car suddenly stops doing their job them?

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Re: Running lights

Post by renault760 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:36 am

Jan-hendrik wrote:
One of my biggest gripes, lazy idiots that sit at traffic lights with their foot on the foot brake. It seems as if hardly anyone these days dares to put the hand brake on and select neutral.
This is very common here in Japan. The biggest reason is not laziness, but the fact most cars now are automatics and more and more of them have automatic stop-start engine systems. Make a stop, even a very short one, the engine switches off. Lift your foot off the brake and the engine starts in an instant and off you go.

What has a car being an auto got to do with it? I have heard people use that argument but I'm afraid it's xxxxxxxs!. As an ex driving instructor, of both manual and auto, you always teach that if a stop is for more than a few seconds, handbrake, neutral.

It should be even more important in an auto because if your foot comes off the brake pedal there is more chance of the car moving.

And unless they are different in Japan, I've driven a car here with stop/start systems, (A Toyota Yaris, as it happens,) and the engine only turns off with the handbrake on and neutral selected. It re-starts when you put it in gear, which, bizarrly, is exactly why my cousin DOESN'T do it, so that it doesn't turn off!! Even if she arrives at a set of lights that have just turned red, with a great que of traffic in front of her, she sits there for the duration with the clutch depressed, (as I usually am!) 1st gear selected and foot brake on. And, just for good measure, far too close to the car in front.

LG.

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Re: Running lights

Post by Jan-hendrik » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:24 am

And unless they are different in Japan, I've driven a car here with stop/start systems, (A Toyota Yaris, as it happens,) and the engine only turns off with the handbrake on and neutral selected. It re-starts when you put it in gear, which, bizarrly, is exactly why my cousin DOESN'T do it, so that it doesn't turn off!! Even if she arrives at a set of lights that have just turned red, with a great que of traffic in front of her, she sits there for the duration with the clutch depressed, (as I usually am!) 1st gear selected and foot brake on. And, just for good measure, far too close to the car in front.
Well, with due respect, things ARE different here. The Yaris you mention is something from a different era. Technology has advanced at a different pace here whether you like it or not, whether you wish to remain stuck in the past or not. And you may wish to reread my post which deals with automatic transmission vehicles that have the auto stop/start engine function. No clutch pedal to confuse your cousin.
As an ex driving instructor, of both manual and auto, you always teach that if a stop is for more than a few seconds, handbrake, neutral.
I respectfully disagree.
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Re: Running lights

Post by Dieselman » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:01 pm

renault760 wrote:
It should be even more important in an auto because if your foot comes off the brake pedal there is more chance of the car moving.

And unless they are different in Japan, I've driven a car here with stop/start systems, (A Toyota Yaris, as it happens,) and the engine only turns off with the handbrake on and neutral selected. It re-starts when you put it in gear, which, bizarrly, is exactly why my cousin DOESN'T do it, so that it doesn't turn off!! Even if she arrives at a set of lights that have just turned red, with a great que of traffic in front of her, she sits there for the duration with the clutch depressed, (as I usually am!) 1st gear selected and foot brake on. And, just for good measure, far too close to the car in front.

LG.
Most cars now have Brake HOLD, which means that the brakes will hold the car stationery until either the accelerator or brake pedal is pressed.

The perceived wisdom of Automatic gearboxes is to leave them in Drive unless parking, to reduce wear.

Stop/Start on auto's works smoothly in conjunction with leaving the gearbox in drive. When the car stops so does the engine.
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Re: Running lights

Post by Ciaran » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:10 pm

Dieselman wrote: The perceived wisdom of Automatic gearboxes is to leave them in Drive unless parking, to reduce wear.
I keep seeing both sides of that argument discussed and can never decide what's the best course of action, leave it in D, where the box will be straining against the brake, and in theory, wearing, or wear the mechanism with regular shifts from Drive to Neutral and back.

An ongoing conundrum :)

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Re: Running lights

Post by Dieselman » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:27 pm

An auto box in drive but not moving can't wear as it's not turning. All the energy is being dissipated as heat into the ATF in the torque converter.
An auto box switching into neutral wears because it is turning and also the friction material wears when it is put back into drive.

Apparently, automatics suffer less rear end shunts, presumably due to being held with the brake lights on.
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Re: Running lights

Post by Ciaran » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:49 pm

Dieselman wrote:An auto box in drive but not moving can't wear as it's not turning. All the energy is being dissipated as heat into the ATF in the torque converter.
An auto box switching into neutral wears because it is turning and also the friction material wears when it is put back into drive.

Apparently, automatics suffer less rear end shunts, presumably due to being held with the brake lights on.
Thanks for that explanation Will, so it's actually less wear just being in D.
When you say 'An auto box switching into neutral wears because it is turning', do you mean that the box is still turning when in Neutral, even though there is supposedly no input from the engine in that circumstance, or did you mean the wear happens only during the short process of the shift from D to N and back?

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Re: Running lights

Post by renault760 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:46 pm

Well, more wear or less wear, it's still INTENSLY annoying siting at lights, at night, staring into masses of high intensity rear brake lights, which goes against what it says in the high way code here in the UK. What it say in Japan I've no idea. If modern braking systems encourage foot brake use at traffic lights then, as far as old fashioned me is concerned, they are stupid.

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