Don't often get in on the passenger side

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xmexclusive
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Re: Don't often get in on the passenger side

Post by xmexclusive » Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:54 am

Citroen made replacement new body shells available for main dealer accident repair of cars.
These most likely had ORGA that indicated date off production line and put into spares stock.
No model VIN marking as this was left blank for the using dealer to imprint.
This practice could lead to a very significant between VIN and ORGA.
One of the dealer special Citroen tools was a set of dies for VIN marking.
This practice was still in place in 1995 as I have a document listing the modifications to a Mk 2 shell for a Mk 1 rebuild.
For most of the Mk 1 build Citroen used ORGA (organisation number) to define the build date pillar marking.
Mid build they changed to use RPN (replacement parts number) as the description for that unchanged pillar marking.

Dieselman
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Re: Don't often get in on the passenger side

Post by Dieselman » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:09 pm

A picture of the right hand strut area and the scuttle panel flat lip, near the sphere, would reveal what is going on.

Check the engine and gearbox numbers against the VIN you have recorded. I suspect they will match.

I believe your car is the correct shell for the VIN stamped on the inner wing, but the front fan console has been replaced due to accident damage, or adding twin fans.
The Rp number is almost certainly wrong for the bodyshell...but iirc, you said the car had been resprayed at some point.

I think whoever replaced the fan console didn't think about the VIN plate there and when the car was painted the significance of the Rp number wasn't known, so a random one was added back on.
The printing of the numbers in the Rp number isn't to the normal spec. The last digit has been over-printed and the 7 is mis-spaced and appears bent.

AFAIK, all light coloured cars are painted with a black Rp number and paint code.

At 5476, I think the bodyshell would still have the early type, spade connectors for the engine bay ground points, not the twin bolt down ones each side.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

Dieselman
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Re: Don't often get in on the passenger side

Post by Dieselman » Thu Apr 30, 2020 6:17 pm

xmexclusive wrote:
Thu Apr 30, 2020 11:54 am
Citroen made replacement new body shells available for main dealer accident repair of cars.
These most likely had ORGA that indicated date off production line and put into spares stock.
No model VIN marking as this was left blank for the using dealer to imprint.
This practice could lead to a very significant between VIN and ORGA.
One of the dealer special Citroen tools was a set of dies for VIN marking.
This practice was still in place in 1995 as I have a document listing the modifications to a Mk 2 shell for a Mk 1 rebuild.
For most of the Mk 1 build Citroen used ORGA (organisation number) to define the build date pillar marking.
Mid build they changed to use RPN (replacement parts number) as the description for that unchanged pillar marking.
I can't see them issuing a Y3 bodyshell for a Y4 car.
Even if they did, they would mark the Rp number appropriate for the car being rebuilt, as that is the parts it would require.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

Saraphi
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Re: Don't often get in on the passenger side

Post by Saraphi » Sat May 02, 2020 7:50 am

I hope this picture will e helpful.
IMG_20200501_102843 (Medium).jpg
The engine & gearbox numbers shown in the blue (log) book were correct at the date of registration in 1996. However there was a new owner registered some 9 years ago and at that time the record shows that a replacement engine and gearbox were installed as well as an lpg system. When the car was passed to me the land transport office issued a new blue book which gives only a summary of original, immediate previous and current owners so we have no real idea as the when the swap took place or whether it was a new new or second hand engine,
The fan console came from Japan, probably from a half V6 car brought over for parts by one of the traders in Bangkok, the Japanese stickers are still in place and two fans were fitted, both original Citroen.
The paint job is typical of a quick flash over prior to resale. In other words only the surfaces that can be seen with all the doors etc closed were treated. So the paint on the doors reverse as well as the jambs under bonnet and boot look quite old, I have always taken them for original.
When the exchange rate pound to baht improves I'll be thinking of a bare metal rework, either retaining the silver or going to pale metallic blue.
One other thing, whilst under the bonnet I noticed an empty connector, should anything important be plugged in here?
IMG_20200501_103010 (Medium).jpg
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White Exec
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Re: Don't often get in on the passenger side

Post by White Exec » Sat May 02, 2020 8:27 am

Hi Rex,
That is the coolant system expansion tank, coolant level sensor.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

Dieselman
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Re: Don't often get in on the passenger side

Post by Dieselman » Sat May 02, 2020 10:24 am

For the pictures, I wanted to see the engine torque mount bracket and the scuttle flat flange inboard of the sphere.

Early type engine mounts had flat plate section welded to the strut area, later ones were further down the strut. The strut area paint appears a bit "messy" and scuffed. Does it look as though a mount could have been ground off and a different one welded on?

S1 bodyshells have the VIN stamped on the scuttle flat panel, S2 moved it to the inner wing.

The undocumented engine and gearbox changes mean that it's going to be difficult to fully identify what has happened.

I prefer cars to have matching numbers, as that stops there being any identifiction issues. If one changes serialised components, it's worth notifying the registration authority, otherwise...like the Grim Reaper...the dreaded Q plate awaits.

The 2.0i - 16v engines were known to be short lived due to piston slap caused by short skirts, so the explanation is probably just that there has been an undocumented mechanicals swap and a respray.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

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Eddie nuff
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Post by Eddie nuff » Sun May 03, 2020 10:30 am

Just to throw my twopenneth into the mix I think you've got a S2 car, that sits lovely on Wobblies btw, that's had a front end smack, been repaired with a S1 front panel (probably the only one available) that's then had a blowover before resale. The paint man, in his haste to get the job done asap, oversprayed the door jamb and, knowing there was a number on the A pillar but not knowing what number it was, he stenciled in the number from the scrapper he'd taken the front panel from.

Remove the numbers, search the web for the correct font, colour and position of the RP numbers for your car . . . and move on.
89 XM 2.0Si RP4788 (Gold)
90 XM 3.0 V6 24v RP4844 (Platinum)
93 Xantia 1.9TD RP6190 (Blue)

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White Exec
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Posts: 5693
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Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, Exclusive, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Don't often get in on the passenger side

Post by White Exec » Sun May 03, 2020 12:12 pm

We can get the correct RP number from the VIN, so take your pick.
Font is something like 48pt Gill Sans, but it hardly matters as the number is not a legal requirement, although important for correct spares, circuitry and service data.
White was a common colour for the number; our white car has the number in yellow.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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