Hello Chaps....new owner

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Stickfinger
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:26 pm

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by Stickfinger » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:01 pm

Crank spins OK, Pump spins OK (and pumps fuel), crank turns OK with cam box off, flywheel pin double checked)

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White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 6642
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, Exclusive, Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime, Sable Phenicien
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by White Exec » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:05 pm

Just done a quick check on Parts for the 2.1, and there are two timing belt lengths listed
0816 54 - 149 DTS (teeth) - for XUD11BTE & ATE
0816 53 - 144 DTS - for earlier 2.1td
Last edited by White Exec on Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

Stickfinger
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Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:26 pm

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by Stickfinger » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:09 pm

??....can I turn the Cam Shaft with the engine locked at the crank ?....will the pistons touch the valves or are the all clear at the locked position ?

The belt is for the XUD11BTE & ATE and matches the one that came off....once I got the tensioner correct it slipped on fine.

citroenxm
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Location: North Wales - FAR far far away!!! :-p

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by citroenxm » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:13 pm

Stickfinger wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:58 pm
20210217_141724.jpg
Referring to this pic I still reckon the crank timing is too advanced..

My other thought was is.. Was the locking bolt in the tdc hole or in the flex plate gap...
Projects:(eventually if theres any bodywork left)
93 L Xm 2.1t D auto project
93 L xm V6 12v Sei Manual

Others
In use.. 1995 M reg S2 2.1td auto exclusive

citroenxm
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Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by citroenxm » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:16 pm

Stickfinger wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:09 pm
??....can I turn the Cam Shaft with the engine locked at the crank ?....will the pistons touch the valves or are the all clear at the locked position ?

The belt is for the XUD11BTE & ATE and matches the one that came off....once I got the tensioner correct it slipped on fine.
No valves will touch the pistons but as you are. Turning by hand you won't hurt them.
Projects:(eventually if theres any bodywork left)
93 L Xm 2.1t D auto project
93 L xm V6 12v Sei Manual

Others
In use.. 1995 M reg S2 2.1td auto exclusive

Stickfinger
Citrobics expert
Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:26 pm

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by Stickfinger » Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:52 pm

citroenxm wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:13 pm
Stickfinger wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:58 pm
20210217_141724.jpg
Referring to this pic I still reckon the crank timing is too advanced..

My other thought was is.. Was the locking bolt in the tdc hole or in the flex plate gap...
Stuck a 6mm hex key in the hole, turned crank until it slipped in and the crank locked......are you telling me there are TWO holes close together ?
(the pin went in about 2 or 3cm)

Dieselman
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Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by Dieselman » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:41 am

The crank does appear too advanced in your picture, it should look like the below image when pinned. Each tooth is ~17 degrees rotation, so possible to cause valve contact.

Link for large size, high res, image.
https://i.imgur.com/RYK3uhE.jpg

Image

Also check you have the cam sprocket on the right way round. With cylinder number one "on the rock" (flywheel end), number four (belt end) should have the cam lobes on compression.
You can rotate the camshaft IF you lower the pistons to the centre of the stoke...i.e. turn the crankshaft 90 degrees from TDC.

There should only be one pinning hole in the flywheel.

You might need to undo the starter motor retainers to gain better access to the pinning hole in the block.
Remove the belt, unlock the flywheel, rotate the crank backwards past the pulley keyway markers, bring it forwards and feel the pin go in.
Increase your pin size for accuracy...8mm comes to mind.

A sure fire way to check the crank position is to remove the sump and take a look.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

Dieselman
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Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by Dieselman » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:48 am

White Exec wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:05 pm
Just done a quick check on Parts for the 2.1, and there are two timing belts lengths listed
0816 54 149 DTS (teeth) - for XUD11BTE & ATE
0816 53 144 DTS - for earlier 2.1td
Stickfinger wrote:
Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:09 pm
??....can I turn the Cam Shaft with the engine locked at the crank ?....will the pistons touch the valves or are the all clear at the locked position ?

The belt is for the XUD11BTE & ATE and matches the one that came off....once I got the tensioner correct it slipped on fine.
AFAIK, There has never been another belt other than 149T for 2.1TD. My mandarin car had engine no. 660, so pretty early in production and it is definitely 149T.

I think the 144T must be for the 1.9 litre.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

Stickfinger
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Posts: 662
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:26 pm

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by Stickfinger » Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:38 am

I will remove the cam box again and spin the engine and try to re-pin it.

There are two things I cannot understand/would like to know:

1. The pin was a positive slide in...a highly qualified mechanic checked it for me and re-inserted it, deffo a positive slide in and lock......
?? Is their only ONE hole in the flywheel ??

2. 8mm does not fit, 6mm does....again....my friend checked this using long 8mm + 6 mm hex L-wrenches....only the 6mm one fitted. (the 8mm (or 7mm) does not fit through the crank-case hole)

Pauls Photo......my photo (this car)
There is no hole in the crank for a pin to slide in when the woodruf key is at Paul's position....I can see there is a difference in the key position and the casting pattern of the block
142105290_445503276634735_6236390200640922626_n.png
......
20210124_135930.jpg
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White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 6642
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, Exclusive, Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime, Sable Phenicien
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by White Exec » Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:24 am

Had the same difficulty when re-belting XUD9 here: 8mm bolt/rod would not go into the flywheel hole.
Dropped to 7mm, and ok.

Belt lengths
Will, 0816 53 144DTS is listed on Parts for 2138cc XM (XM I).
NFP, but still listed there.
Presumably the 149DTS belt replaced it?
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

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