Hello Chaps....new owner

New to the forum? Feel free to introduce yourself / your cars. Also have a look for any frequently asked questions and information.
Post Reply
Stickfinger
Knows how to use the parking brake
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:26 pm

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by Stickfinger » Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:38 pm

Update.~

Took all pins etc out.

Photo of my car/engine for ref:
Options.jpg
There are THREE locking holes on my flywheel it seems....these are 6mm holes not 8mm holes. I was sure there was only one but might have got confused trying 8mm pins...or just being an idiot !

Looking at the above image these are where the holes line up with the hole in the case under the starter (note (I had missed it) the painted line on the crank pulley and the painted Dot on the block (green arrows).

With the belt on:
Engine locks at my position (Red Line)
Engine locks at the recommended position (Blue Line)
Engine turns at the painted position (Green Line)

I checked at all positions with the belt removed and the cam is locked (valves touching) at Blue and Red
Cam turns Free at the Green Line with the belt off.

I re timed it all to the Green line/painted dot, re-set the Cam and pump, re applied the belt and turned the engine over 5 times with a ratchet on the crank nut, it turned free with four compressions each rotation.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 5936
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, Exclusive, Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime, Sable
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by White Exec » Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:56 pm

Alasdair,

This caught my eye...
"...Looking at the above image these are where the holes line up with the hole in the case under the starter (note (I had missed it) the painted line on the crank pulley and the painted Dot on the block (green arrows)."
My bold.

If you look in the mechanic's booklet covering XUD11 BTE (P8C), the pegging hole for the flywheel is shown in a different place - see printed pages 113-114, and p114 for the hole:
2001_050008_Book2_Xantia_XM_Synergie.pdf
I may not be being helpful here, but the pegging hole is above the starter, not under it.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

citroenxm
Global Moderator
Posts: 8567
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:11 am
Location: North Wales - FAR far far away!!! :-p

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by citroenxm » Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:39 pm

White Exec wrote:
Thu Feb 18, 2021 4:56 pm

I may not be being helpful here, but the pegging hole is above the starter, not under it.
Did alasdair say where the fly wheel peg hole was. I'm sure there's only one and it is up the back towards the top of the starter. I'm not aware of a lower one.
Projects:(eventually if theres any body left)
92 L Xm 2.1t D auto project
Others
07 c5 2.2 hdi 173bhp manual

User avatar
White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 5936
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, Exclusive, Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime, Sable
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by White Exec » Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:59 pm

He said "...with the hole in the case under the starter...", Paul.
That doesn't tally with the booklet drawing.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

Stickfinger
Knows how to use the parking brake
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:26 pm

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by Stickfinger » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:01 pm

peg.JPG
Page 114....if so, that is where I pegged it

"under" the starter....as in, partially hidden by it
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Stickfinger on Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 5936
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, Exclusive, Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime, Sable
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by White Exec » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:02 pm

OK, was just going by what you had posted.
That is the correct position.
It took me a while to find the hole, hidden away as it was by engine clutter.
Last edited by White Exec on Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

Stickfinger
Knows how to use the parking brake
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:26 pm

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by Stickfinger » Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:06 pm

I need to keep reminding myself, I do not know the history of this engine (it was swapped) and it has had a belt go on it in the past.....I do not know what has been fitted to it over the years (after market flywheel/had a stick shift box etc etc....)

Still confused why it has three flywheel holes and the fact the casting of this engine is different to all of the others I have seen (core plug is in the same spot however)

Dieselman
Global Moderator
Posts: 11580
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:44 pm

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by Dieselman » Fri Feb 19, 2021 8:12 am

The casting is different as yours is a later BTE engine, all the images so far are for ATE engines. The casting was changed to delete the front index at Rp 7725, otherwise it is identical. it was used to time petrol engines...Ignore it.

The hole in the block is high up behind the starter and you can't see it at all with the starter in position. Remove the starter bolts and either remove it, or push it out of the way to reveal the hole.
You won't be able to insert an allen key with the starter in position, so I suspect you don't have the correct hole. The correct one is up between the strenghtening ribs.
I suspect you are slipping the allen key into the gap between the starter and block.

Hi res.
https://imgur.com/WoFIps7.jpg

Image

Image

Check you have the correct locking locations.
Bearing in mind the engine is canted back at 30 degrees...use the diagram in the Private Car Book, that white-exec posted up.
The crank front key should be at 12 o'clock, the pump at 6 o'clock, the cam at 8 o'clock, compared to the flat bottom of the block.
This will leave the crank key facing the centre of the core plug.

Image

Are you sure the cam pulley you have fitted is exactly the right one. All XUD cam pulleys are 42T, but different part numbers depending on the engine. Presumably the locking hole location differs.

With the 2.1 TD cam locked, No.4 lobes (belt end) are on compression, No.1 (flywheel end) are "on the rock".

Hi res.
https://imgur.com/A9Rh9ip.jpg

Image

The only way the crank keyway could have changed is if the crankshaft has had a new keyway cut into it. Pull the pulley off and check. I doubt it has been changed.

it's possible there is a bent valve staying open, thus blocking the piston, but as the crank can be turned with the cam box off, that's not the issue.
It's also possible you are coming up against the engine compression and mistaking it for blocking. The compression ratio is 20:1, so it will generate about 300psi in the cylinder.

Remove the starter,
Pin the crank..there is only one hole in the flywheel,
Check the crank keyway,
Lock and check the cam position,
Lock the pump,
Fit the belt.

If you really can't align the crank keyway remove the sump and check the crank alignment. No.1 and No.4 pistons should be at TDC, 2 and 3 at BDC.
You can't check the piston height through the cylinder head, as this is a pre-chamber (indirect) diesel.

As an aside, you can see the belt spec in the third image...149T, 25.4mm wide. All this size and style timing belts and pulleys are imperial, so this is 1" wide with a pitch of 3/8" between teeth.
The 144T belt mentioned in White-exec's post is for the 2138 Atmo diesel, never offered in the UK.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

Stickfinger
Knows how to use the parking brake
Posts: 60
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 8:26 pm

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by Stickfinger » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:03 am

I need to read that fully.......and will today.

...however, some quick answers on a couple of points.

All valves operate normally, 2 down, one down etc, no "loose" rockers. Each stroke gives compression, I need to push "hard" past the compression stroke and get a "soft build and fast release" of the compression.
I am 100% sure about the difference between "solid lock" and compression.
I am 100% sure the "pin" is in the correct "hole" as per the previous drawing and your image.
(Not a "standard" allen key......it is one of the long 6mm torx "wrench" ones)....also I have used a bent 6mm rod very similar to yours.

I will be double checking all pulleys, pins etc today.
I put the replacement pulley on top of the new one when I received it, it was an exact match, diameter, teeth, locking holes, keyway, spoke designs etc.

Again, thank you very much for your assistance....I would not have got this far without your, Paul's and Jim's input.

User avatar
White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 5936
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, Exclusive, Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime, Sable
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: Hello Chaps....new owner

Post by White Exec » Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:24 am

Remove the glow-plugs if you need to get rid of compression.
Will also enable to check which cyl is compressing.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

Post Reply