Purchase in an American XM desert - am I brave enough?

[Pip]

Greetings from Atlanta.

I’m excited to find this forum, and I hope you don’t mind a couple of newby simple questions. I fell in love with the XM when I spent 6 months in Avignon in the early ‘90’s. What a unique, special car.

First of all, I hope I’m not breaking some etiquette by asking these questions. I started in the FAQs and don’t feel I am.

I am close to pulling the trigger on a 1996 XM VSX 6 cylinder 72,000 mile, manual transmission red beauty. I haven’t recorded the RP number, but the VIN is VF7Y4GN0000GN566. Doubt it matters at this point, but it seems a frequent request.

I’ve checked the usual rust spots, seen that the suspension is doing what it should, started the car easily, and noticed nothing dripping underneath.

I understand that when you go for a drive in your lovely, old French car, and it doesn’t give you any grief, you don’t write about it online. You simply enjoy your ride.

Thus, I don’t have experience with all that goodness. I doubt there is a single XM within 500 miles of me. So, I can’t talk to a local about his recent drives. However, all I see during my research is how challenging it is to get ABS sensors, and I hear about hydraulic leaks, suspension valves that can’t be sourced, exhausts that weren’t made aftermarket, and keypads that go bad so you can’t even start the car.

As far as I can tell, there is no mechanic in Atlanta with any experience, much less expertise in managing Citroen’s suspension or other mechanical oddities. I can change oil, spark plugs, install a radio & cruise control, but I don’t think I would want to replace a leaking hydraulic line or mess with the spaghetti behind the dash (electronics).

So, my question to you experts: can I bravely pull the trigger and enjoy my ride for years? Or, will I shortly have a parked brick outside the home, wishing I’d never met the beast?

Not, of course, asking for any guarantees, but I would love to hear some wonderful stories about how many of you only need to change the oil regularly and the spheres every decade (whether you need to or not) to balance out all the challenges that do make it online and scare a potential buyer.

I also know of the all the initial quality challenges that necessitated S2 vehicles, but it appears the sought after rides are the S1 turbo diesels? Not sure I understand why that dichotomy exists.

Thanks for reading this far and any feedback you are comfortable providing. I hope to contribute a beauty story of my own soon.

-Pip

[PS - I have owned a 1991 SAAB 900 'vert since 1995. I have a 2002 Panoz Esperante which is likely much harder to source trim pieces for than an XM. So, I'm not afraid of an old car, and I can drive one that doesn't have everything working all the time. Just adding as a frame of reference for my expectations. Thanks.]

[Dieselman]

You're missing a digit from the end, it should be vf7y4gn0000gn5662.
The Rp is 6996, which gives a production date of 4 January 1996.

The car is a 1996 Prv6-manual, so actually pretty desireable.
It has Diravi steering, which is very unique, but can be prone to leaks. Same rack as fitted to Cx and Sm, so rebuild kits are available.

The Prv6 is the same basic engine used in Volvo 760, Renault 25 and safrane, Dodge monaco and Eagle premier, Peugeot 505, 604, 605, Alpine Gta/610 turbo,...and Delorean.
It's robust, but a bit thirsty.
The manual gearboxes are bomb proof and make the V6 pretty quick.
Spare parts, including exhausts, aren't an issue for this version V6.

It is a mid-range model, (VSX) , so no push button climate control, no electric armrest, possibly no heated seats.
Magenta is a nice colour.

I think it's a bit heavily priced to say there is no warranty, use the missing front bumper trim, worn gearknob, incorrect alloys, mid-range model, as your bargaining chips.

Some of our members prefer the Series 1 based on looks, but a series 2 actually rides a little better, due to various suspension changes.
Turbo-diesels are the choice in Europe simply due to running costs of V6 petrol engines.

As far as reliability goes, there shouldn't be anything to scare you. The ZF automatic gearboxes are the weak link of the Xm as far as mechanicals go, especially the Zf4Hp20 fitted to Es9j engined V6, 1997 onwards.

Check the Hydractive functions as it should. In Normal mode it should float like nothing you have ever been in before, in Sport mode it should stiffen up, but won't be noticeable at slower speeds. Leave it in Normal mode when driving and it switches without you noticing...it just goes from being a super wafty luxo-barge, to being a sports saloon, instantly...then back to super wafty once the road straightens again.
Check the car at idle and not moving at normal ride height. Bounce the car front and rear, it should be very supple. Switch off, close the doors, wait 60 seconds until you hear a clonk, then bounce again, at which point it should be much stiffer.

Rust, rust and rust, are the three killers of an Xm. The mechanicals don't really suffer rust, even the pipes, as they are black nickel plated.

That car has no rust, so I wouldn't expect any rust related issues with suspension pipework. It has taken a bit of a bash underneath from unloading from the container, but nothing appears amis.
This car doesn't have the later anti-sink valve so sinks overnight...which is good for the hydraulics, but appears to have led to a scrape.

If you fancy an Xm and can get this at the right price, there's nothing to stop you going for it. How many more Xm are being offered for sale in the the Usa?

We have another USA member that uses his Xm V6 a his daily use car.

Video of underside of this car.

[Pip]

What a wonderful, quick reply, and what rapid research to find the car in question. I've seen the video, but not on the seller's website. I'm impressed with your searching skills.

The only sales I can find on this side of the pond were $8k, $10k, (both from 2108) and this shop's last sale in the last year was at $12k. Any specific thoughts on price if you're willing to share?

Having read the forums for a while, I know that you are a guru here. Thanks so much for your thoughts, rapid reply, and encouragement. Hopefully I can work something out.

Thank you. Pip

[Dieselman]

As far as pricing goes, the Usa and Europe are significantly different for this type of car. For older classics the USA is much cheaper, but for modern classics, especially very rare ones like an Xm, the prices appear firmer.
I can't actually advise on what this will fetch stateside, but it is a pretty healthy markup compared to a 70,000 mile V6 in Europe, but then it didn't swim across the Atlantic...
As Spain uses Kilometers, I assume the speedometer has been changed, if so, can the mileage be verified?
It's quite rare to find a Vsx in V6 form, most V6 are Exclusive, so adjust the value down for that. An Exclusive has more toys than the Vsx, but the essentials are the same and this car does have leather seats and black headlining.

You need to do some local research and form your own opinion, but to me, the car appears sound. The giveaway areas underneath all seem to be in very good condition...However, the best advice I can give is never listen to some bloke on the internet...

[Pip]

"Some bloke on the internet!" Ha! I appreciate the sentiment, but you're far from that.

I greatly appreciate your insight and thoughts on condition and pricing.

There's no market here, and I've seen what they go for over there. I'll be paying a premium for the swim across the ocean. But, I now have a few more details with which to arm the conversation.

Thanks so much for the comments, and I'll follow up if it lands in the driveway.

Thank you.

[Dieselman]

I've had another look at the video and pictures on the website and have some observations.

I believe the front bumper has taken a bit of a bump and the centre is pushed back a little, which may mean the support bar is bent. This fits with the missing chrome trim. The bumper support just pushes in to the chassis rails once the bumper skin is removed.

The exhaust centre box hangers are sitting on top of the rubber buffers, not in the pockets...Refit the centre brace with the buffers slid onto the exhaust hangers, ensuring the height selection rod is in the plastic U guide.

Looking at the inside of the L/h front wheel there appears to be a small amount of oil weeping from the tyre bead, which is normally an indiction the rubber strut return pipe is leaking...fit new strut return pipe...easy and cheap, they are held on with a stainless steel spring band, cost about $15 each.

The above items should be part of your conversation with the seller, all are easy and cheap to sort, but much easier to have the seller do it, than you.

[Pip]

Well - I greatly appreciate the additional comments. They were helpful during discussions. And now the car is in my garage!

I've not had too much time to experience the magic carpet ride, but even at low speeds, it is clearly unique to every other car I've driven. Even speed bumps and driveway entrances feel smoother.

Interestingly, this particular one is the smoothest shifting manual transmission I've had the pressure of piloting as well. That was unexpected and really quite the surprise. What a delight.

I hope that I don't need too much help from this fantastic community, but it is very reassuring to know of the generosity of the knowledge base available on this forum.

Dieselman, I really do appreciate the thoughts and feedback from "some bloke on the internet." Thank you so very much.

Best to my new French car family!

-Pip

[Dieselman]

The seller did say, "if you think an S-class Mercedes of that era is comfortable, then you haven't driven a Citroen Xm"...I say, it's all balls...well, spheres really...
I bet He was surprised how quickly that one went through the revolving door.

I think you have bought a really good example of an Xm and it's no surprise to hear the ME5T gearbox is to your liking. It also has the advantage that it helps shove the car from 0-60mph in 7.8s, nearly 2s quicker than the auto.


Your car has four matching, Michelin, tyres, a replacement Citroen (PSA) exhaust and replacement rear spheres, also genuine Citroen, so I suspect it has been main dealer maintained.

Citroen spheres are expensive but the best, some aftermarket ones are as good, some not so.

There are two aspects to why some spheres are better than others, the diaphragm material can vary which allows gas permeation at quicker, or slower rates, and more importantly, the dampers in the neck of the corner spheres.
Citroen, as you would expect, have tight control over the dampers fitted, so the car rides exactly as designed, very supple, but well controlled.
Some aftermarket manufacturers achieve this, but some fit dampers that are too stiff on sharp jolt, so irrespective of gas pressure the car will always have a sharp, jiggly, ride.

Spheres loose gas slowly over some years, but to avoid expense you can reduce gas loss.

"Sinkers" take the weight off the spheres which reduces the gas pressure and also makes the membrance press against the inside of the steel sphere, at which point there is no gas loss.
Xm with anti-sink maintain ride height, so the spheres are under pressure at all times, hence multi-couche spheres were introduced, as they don't allow permeation.
My recommendation, if not using the car for an extended period...weeks..., set the suspension control to low, as this evacuates the hydraulics and relaxes the height setting spring rod. The spring rods tend to deform when Xm are left beached for very extended periods (years), so the ride height goes high, requiring adjustment.

Ensuring the spheres are gassed to correct pressure ensures ride quality and extends their life, as when pressure has been significantly reduced, the membrane can be ruptured by it pressing on the fastenings inside the rear of the sphere.

Your car obviously has well gassed spheres as the ride quality is good, but it's worth knowing how to achieve the maximum life from them, as they are genuine Citroen ones.
This is why some members have their own pressure testing and sphere filling rigs.
See thread regarding spheres.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=10597&start=10#p126987

As for preventative maintenance, engine, gearbox and hydraulic system oils.
Lubricating the height setting spring rods joints with grease will pay dividends in terms of smoothmess of height corrector operation, and longevity of the pivot bush.
For the hydractive system, Hydractive-2 systems can suffer two main faults: the diodes inside the electrovalves can fail causing the system to fail to engage soft mode and in some cases can damage the Ecu output VN05 mosfets.
The other fault is failure to operate due to poor electrical Gnd due to corrosion. The Gnd point on the R/h inner wing, behind the headlamp, is the Gnd point. Strip, clean, refit and protect with grease/petroleum jelly, is good maintenance.

How to on installing additional electrovalve diodes into the wiring loom, near the Ecu. EDIT: I have noticed an error in this document, see follow on post.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=9749

For now, just drive the car, you might think the suspension works well on your short, local, drive, but wait until you take it on the open road. Bumps...and bends...just dissapear...
The Xm isn't a quick car, but is a car that carries speed. What you need are less intersections with traffic lights and more roundabouts...

At night, the large, panoramic, windscreen just adds to the feeling of piloting a spaceship.

Don't forget to let your better half have a drive, don't say anything, just sit back and observe their reaction.

[Dieselman]

Warning:

The Electrovalve-diode modification sheet I linked to in the previous post has an error.

The connector it refers to should be the white connector, not the black one per the document.
The rest of the document is correct, however, rather than making a new Gnd connection for the diodes to connect to, I would simply use the one connected to Pins 8 and 15 of the same white connector.

See Gabors' Xm, Series-2 wiring diagram, page 86/116 for reference: link below.
download/file.php?id=9711

An alternate connection point would be the black 7 pin connector mounted next to the R/h sphere.
The electrovalves are pins 7 and 6, the Gnd is Pin 5.

[Pip]

Well, a little more than a month in, it has been a delight getting to know my new French friend. For these first few weeks, I've just wanted to enjoy it. I imagine over the coming months I will want to start addressing some of the suggestions above.

I greatly appreciate the lengthy, thoroughly replies and the direction for the initial time period. I hope I won't need too much mechanical help, but it is so nice to know this team is out there.

I worried that like a boat owner my best days of Citroen ownership would be the first and last. So far, it isn't turning out that way.

-Pip