SM owner saying hello

Charles M · Post by **Charles M** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:43 pm

A quick introduction - my friend Dieselman was kind enough to suggest I come to the CCC rally yesterday and I met numerous XM owners, all of whom were a credit to their cars (or was it vice versa). Having started my Citroen ownership with a 1972 SM, I need to drive something like this daily not once in a while, so am now looking for an XM. Most probably diesel, even though I was given a run in a stunning Silver V6 Exclusive yesterday. I'm a bit of a car tragic but love offbeat and well engineered cars. Hopefully I'll have an XM in time for Little Horwood, otherwise I'll just bring the SM again!

Rommel · Post by **Rommel** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:52 pm

Hi Charles,
Welcome to the forum.

Just bring the SM (not that I want to see it or anything

)!

I love my 2.1 diesel auto though after the SM it may be a bit lethargic for your tastes.....maybe a 2.5 might keep you happy.

CitroJim · Post by **CitroJim** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:06 pm

Welcome Charles

I can most certainly recommend the V6...

And I can also vouch for what great people XM owners are

I'm late to the party as I discovered the XM late but it's a discovery I never regret making...

Hope your search for a good XM soon bears fruit and see you a Little Horwood

MTXM · Post by **MTXM** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:08 pm

Welcome to the Forum Charles and it was nice to meet you if only briefly at the National with Will. I am sorry that I did not get a chance to chat further and to see and even ride in your SM! My personal recommendation for an XM would be a S1 V6 and Brian has a low mileage 1991 si 12v for sale, although I realize you need something for more everyday use! It will be good to see you at CXM and the SM would certainly be very welcome. With regards, Matthew T.

Duke · Post by **Duke** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:11 pm

Welcome Charles and nice to meet you yesterday, glad it sounds like you enjoyed the day too.

I can echo Matthew's thoughts - apologies for not getting around to having a further chat with yourself and Will.

Good luck with your search of an XM.

CitroJim · Post by **CitroJim** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:14 pm

The S2 V6 is a very practical car that can be used daily Charles but please do bear in mind that the gearbox, whist it's a brilliant thing, has a time-bomb ticking from around 140,000 miles onward... It's not hard to defuse but can be a tad on the expensive side..

The engine is absolutely and utterly bombproof so long you attend to the cooling system.

Both engine and 'box come from the V6 Xantia but there the similarity stops !!!

Charles M · Post by **Charles M** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:40 pm

I am not sure I like the sound of time bombs (or even expensive ones) - what issue is that CitroJim?

CitroJim · Post by **CitroJim** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:12 pm

Charles M wrote:I am not sure I like the sound of time bombs (or even expensive ones) - what issue is that CitroJim?

The ZF 4HP20 used in the S2 V6 Charles, is an early sealed-for-life auto-adaptive electronic 'box and it works very, very well indeed. It is a thing of beauty.

ZF quote a lifetime of 100,000 miles or ten years and in this period they supposedly need no maintenance bar checking the ATF level. The ATF itself is an exotic synthetic brew made only by Mobil called LT71141 (LT standing for LifeTime) and reassuringly expensive even thought it has a nasty odour..

Most HP20s start to die around 150,000 miles and most are dead by 170,000 miles but they can die earlier.

I've come to the conclusion that the primary failure mode is the lock-up clutch in the torque converter wearing and depositing friction material in the ATF which is caught by the oil filter. Over time the filter begins to plug and the plugging gets worse as the TC clutch wears further and sheds more and more friction material. I believe the clutch eventually breaks up and then chokes the filter almost completely with friction material debris which results in a lowering of hydraulic pressure and lack of lubrication. This causes clutch slip to the point you end up with a box of neutrals. Severe bearing wear and valve block damage can also occur although in many cases, as long as the car is not driven to the bitter end, the damage is light and a new filter, seals and refurbished TC sees all good again. I have seen them wreck bearings, clutches, valve blocks and oil pumps. The oil filter is internal and utterly inaccessible from outside; the 'box has to be fully stripped to replace it.

The actual job of fixing the 'box is possible at home and this websiteshows you how..

Sadly the engine has to be lifted and the box completely stripped to get at the oil filter. It's all not actually as hard as it looks.

Regular ATF changes can help extend the life a little and lots of motorway use is good too but ultimately the TC will die and damage the 'box.

Don't let that lot put you off the V6 as if you have a fairly equipped workshop you can do it yourself and a lot of V6s you find these days have already had their gearboxes overhauled.

This does not apply to the earlier ZF 4HP18 used in all other varieties of the XM with an autobox.. They last forever with regular ATF changes...

Charles M · Post by **Charles M** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:21 pm

Thanks - an issue then on the S2 V6s to watch out for.

One for the professionals in my case - whenever I do work, there is never a happy outcome.

xantia_v6 · Post by **xantia_v6** » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:38 pm

Welcome, you obviously have good taste...

My XM V6 is not for sale, but my Xantia V6 24V is. It is not quite an XM, but is very good as a daily driven car. PM me if interested, or look on FCF in a couple of days when I will be updating the description and photos.

Mike

Citroen XM Forum

SM owner saying hello

SM owner saying hello

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