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New members & questions about autobox...
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 4:39 pm
by ekjdm14
Hi all, been pointed in this direction from our more usual haunt of FCF as I spotted an XM we just might be interested in, but have reservations about the gearbox. Would really appreciate if someone in the know could glance over my FCF post below and offer any advice please-:
Just seen a '94 XM estate, 2.0 petrol automatic for spares/repair near us and I'm interested. The car needs welding for MoT (I can do that probably, would have to look) and the usual electrical foibles to go through, but the main thing that worries me is that the gearbox has a fault, described as and I quote "There is a problem with the automatic gear, it can only be put in 'P','N', and 'D'. Replacement autounit shift comes with it, must be fitted."
So, what I'm wondering before I consider going to look at the car is if there's any likelihood of the fault being either electronic or shifter related, any known issues that would cause this symptom etc?
My feeling is if there's no reverse but "P" still works then it can't be shifter related and the 'box itself is going to have to be stripped and at the very least the valve block cleaned out, if not new clutch/brake packs fitted. The car has done 163k so could be that the box is ready for a rebuild/replacement anyway. What make/model gearbox is fitted to these models? I have a little experience of ZF 4HP22 and they tended to start slipping through wear around 150-160k, although they were in older RWD cars.
Any suggestions would be appreciated, by the way this car is purported to have been featured in the Citroen Car Club magazine of December 2012 and October 2013. It has also been shown on the 25 years XM event in September 2014.
The welding isn't a major problem to me, and the electrics are to be expected (I also fully expect a good session of caliper freeing, sphere replacement & hydraflushing but that's for another post if we get the car even), but the no-reverse situation really is what gets me, I can handle stripping and cleaning the gearbox internals but if it's likely to be mechanically worn/dead then might not be so keen.
TIA for any info/advice.
Re: New members & questions about autobox...
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:05 pm
by Dean
Welcome
If memory serves correctly R gear does not use the highest line pressure in the box, at a guess i would say it is a sticky valve or maybe a regulator fault both of which are easy to swap out in situe, main thing is what the rest of the box behaves like, if it drives though the gears fine as it should with auto and manual selection of gears working spot on then i would suspect a valve block issue, make sure the oil is clean and free of burnt-ness and bits of gearbox as this would indicate knackered clutches or big mechanical issues obviously.
The gearbox itself is the ZF4-HP18 fully mechanical unit and they are much longer lived than te electronic HP20's which seem to have limited life due to the sealed for life nature of the box with the filters completely hidden unless it is stripped down.
I would be having a good look at this car and a drive before purchase with an eye on changing the box as a worst case scenario and an offer on the car to reflect this.
I will pop over to the FCF later just to be nosey
D
Re: New members & questions about autobox...
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:35 pm
by XMX
Hi and welcome to Club-XM !
ekjdm14 wrote:Hi all, been pointed in this direction from our more usual haunt of FCF as I spotted an XM we just might be interested in, but have reservations about the gearbox. Would really appreciate if someone in the know could glance over my FCF post below and offer any advice please-:
.......................................
I take its
THIS-ONE on E-bay !
Good luck with it (If you secure it) ?
XMX
Re: New members & questions about autobox...
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:43 pm
by Dean
I don't understand what the seller means, why can't it go in 1,2,3 or R? Have you had contact with the seller and asked what exactly is wrong and what part he has to replace it?
D
Re: New members & questions about autobox...
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:48 pm
by sdelasal
Sounds to me like the seller is providing a new shifter mechanism with the car implying it's a problem with the external shift mechanism not internals.
Re: New members & questions about autobox...
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:02 pm
by Dean
If that is the case the shift mechanism is actually inside the gearbox, access is gained after removal of the valve block, labour time depends on engine fitted, here is a rubbish picture of the shift mechanism, this is where the notches and feel of the shifter come from
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3432/332 ... 417e_b.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sorry I did have a better picture but I think it was with all my photo's from the last 10 years on my laptop, which failed to boot some time ago
D
Re: New members & questions about autobox...
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:21 pm
by MTXM
Here is one of my pictures of the gearbox in a 1992 V6 with the valve block removed although the change mechanism is slightly obscured. Regards, Matthew T.
Re: New members & questions about autobox...
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 9:30 pm
by ekjdm14
Thanks all, for both welcomes and info. Yes that's the one we've seen, I'm unsure as yet what is actually included, seems from his username that the seller's first language may not be English, so it could be anything from a shifter cable to a spare gearbox that he's including in the deal. Good to know it's an all-mechanical box & from the reading of other's autobox exploits on here it does seem more likely than not to be a valve/spring issue rather than major mechanical. (I believe the lack of 1/2/3 in description could be language barrier again but a test drive will hopefully confirm.)
Tentative bidding after viewing is the way forward on this one I think, what with the numerous corrosion fails. If I judge the metalwork to be within reason then I'll probably take a punt on the gearbox being fixable in-situ provided it drives forwards OK & fluid looks/smells like Dex2 should. Might even try to "provoke" reverse with a few N/R/N/R cycles, if anyone thinks it may help?
Will let you know what happens anyway, thanks again for the replies. much appreciated
Re: New members & questions about autobox...
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:17 pm
by MTXM
No problem and good luck with your bidding!! Regards, Matthew T.
Re: New members & questions about autobox...
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:36 pm
by citroenxm
I have a fully working in good nick TCT auto box in the shed... Ive no idea if the 2.0i petrol and TCT engines use the same ratios!??
