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Citroen/Dave
Can find the S1 radio
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:54 pm
Orga / RP numbers: VF7Y3AL0000AL1619 5111 1990 XM Citroen V6 24v

New Member

Post by Citroen/Dave » Fri Oct 16, 2015 8:32 pm

Greetings from the USA,

I just found this forum and I am delighted to have become a member.

I have cherished 14 D Citroens in the last 45 years. I purchased orphaned cars from other Americans when they thought their cars were ready for the scrap yard. After the usual and sometime exotic fixes they be came my family cars. Almost all of them were resold when someone wanted them more than I did. "Is you Citroen for sale?" "No." "Would you take $2,000 for it?" Let me think a minute: I paid $200 for it, drove it 100,000 miles, "Yes, I will sell it." People paid me to drive the best, for many years . . . I tried to donate my last DS to a local transportation museum. It seems they did not want to educate what an automobile is, rather they wanted a fresh coat of paint on some old car. Imagine my disgust. That final DS went to a restorer for rebirth.

In the past two years I have been searching the internet for my "last great Citroen". Americans have finally realized the importance of the DS's and the prices have skyrocketed. These now collector's cars are out of my reach. So I got to thinking, why not purchase an antique Citroen (25 years old or older). An old car from Europe might not be so expensive: I now have a fantastic 1990 XM V6 24v 5 speed Citroen. My new problems are diminishing but one remains and I am asking for help.

How does one disable the keyboard ignition locking system. Everything else is functional except the read out, " Boot Lid Open". I have not found the sending switch in the boot and do not know if that has disabled the ignition. In either case it will be to my advantage to disable the keyboard system. Your help will be greatly appreciated. Perhaps there is a thread on this subject that you can direct me to.

My wife and I plus a friend, the wife of the Virginia Citroen dealer of thirty some years past, just returned from a month journey through the UK. My wife and I fell in love with Cornwall and are considering moving especially if the local Presidential elections put an idiot in office.

Cheers!
Dave

captainhaddock
XM Guru
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Re: New Member

Post by captainhaddock » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:03 pm

Welcome Dave! Interesting story indeed! You will get the answer to your question in no time, I am sure! I leave John or others to give you the proper answer. I've got an incling it's fairly easy but don't try this on my account: start up the engine and unplug the keyboard. In my XM this does not work but it's a Mk 2.

Just wait for the experts to come along! Good luck.

citroenxm
Global Moderator
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Location: North Wales - FAR far far away!!! :-p

Re: New Member

Post by citroenxm » Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:52 pm

Not just any xm but the most powerfull and sought after model in the uk a series one v6 24 v manual prv ... Thats just amazing. 200bhp of pure beauty. I have one too here in the UK. Scarse over here let along over in the usa...



As for keypad.. Yes unplug it while engine is running. Do NOT ever forget the code.. If you ever plug the keypad back in it will ask for the code. While its unplugg it wont need it again. You can then remove it and place a handy little cubby holder there inplace of the keypad unit.
1990 H reg V6 24v Manual .. in progress.. on SORN
Projects:
92 Bx Txd Turbo
92 L Xm 2.1t D auto project
Others
55 C5 V6 24v Auto toy
54 Xsara picasso 2.0 8v Hdi
Shit thats scarey.. Two XMs left...

xmexclusive
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Re: New Member

Post by xmexclusive » Fri Oct 16, 2015 10:19 pm

Hi Dave

There are two separate switches for the boot on an XM car.

One is in the tailgate catch on the opening part.
Remove the black trim cover and you will see the catch assembly.
A sheathed wire comes out near the top and curves over to your left looking into the boot.
This ends in a Brown two pin plug and socket to go on into the boot lid wiring loom.
Suspect this one feeds the boot open display.

The second switch is in the black plastic trim fixed across the boot where the lid shuts down.
At the centre of this trim you will see a hole with a metal hoop the lid catch locks onto.
Just behind the hoop is a "D" shaped piece of plastic in the trim.
The "D" is hinged and pushes down with an open metal switch contact underneath.
Pressing this contact should switch off the boot illumination.

I doubt either of these switches are causing your ignition problem.

Tell me a bit more about your XM.
Does the engine run?
What shows on the keypad?

If you find the keypad is unplugged do not try plugging it back in.

That particular method of keypad bypass only works with some XM models.
You have to know the code, start the engine and unplug with it running.
Plugging back in resets to code working which is a real problem if the code is unknown.
The official Citroen solution to this problem is to replace the engine ECU.

Early keypad cars like yours were supplied new with ECU code set to 0001.
Setting the code to 0000 isolated the keypad.

John

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White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 4563
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: New Member

Post by White Exec » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:58 am

Hi Dave, and welcome!

That's quite a track record of rescues and rebuilds you have there - and a good way to fund comfortable transport!

The XM must be bound to turn a few heads where you are. Do post some photos when you can. Do you ever see any others?
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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raynoon
Could do a 2.1 headgasket
Posts: 1128
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:38 am
Orga / RP numbers: 6043
Location: Merseyside

Re: New Member

Post by raynoon » Sat Oct 17, 2015 8:04 am

Hello Dave, whereabouts in the USA are you? Would be great to see some pictures.
1993 Citroen XM 2.1 turboSD auto
1995 Citroen XM 2.1TD Auto EXCLUSIVE

Citroen/Dave
Can find the S1 radio
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:54 pm
Orga / RP numbers: VF7Y3AL0000AL1619 5111 1990 XM Citroen V6 24v

Re: New Member

Post by Citroen/Dave » Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:01 pm

Additional info on the the immobiliser (?) problem.

When I purchased the car red showed until I turned the key and entered the code - seemed to be normal - then the green light and the engine fired immediately. After driving a few hours the engine turned over but did not reliably start until the engine (?) had time to cool. Currently (and prior to the starting problem), the green light is on all the time but seems to be weak in intensity; the engine turns over but does not start. I have fuel pressure at the injector rail and I have strong spark. So, I think the immobiliser is the problem. Without an running engine, I can not "unplug" using the suggestion from John, above.

John, the only thing missing from the car, other than a jack and a radio, is the little flap switch that turns on the boot light. I have had the boot latch mechanism out a number of times as the rear bumper was tapped and the boot lid would not latch. Now, it latches. I was wondering if I had disturbed that catch switch that might have lead to the immobilizer problem. Apparently it is not part of the immobilizer system.

I also tried to enter the 0000 code as recommended in a copy of an British owners manual downloaded from the internet, to no apparent effect. I tried the reset after the engine stopped starting, not before.

Without a proper manual I do not yet know how to remove the immobiliser to attempt the disconnect. I have a Haynes manual that does not list the V6 24v engine but probably it will give me the immobiliser dismount information, if and when I get the engine to start.

What does the immobiliser control? I have spark and fuel pressure. Can I put in an override circuit with a switch to control the missing function?

Thanks to all for the warm welcome and fast response.

Apparently, Citroen tried to reenter the US with the XM early on. We have rumors of 20 that may have been brought in perhaps as gray market cars. According to David Burnham, Citroen dealer in New York state, at least 9 of those have been scrapped. David Burnham has two parts cars on E-Bay and owns the original XM Citroen imported that eventually was crash tested at the IIHS (Insurance Institute of Highway Safety) near Charlottesville, Virginia. A rear impact ruptured the gasoline fuel tank or rear fuel system which ended Citroen's return to the US effort. I have a copy of Alberto Martinez' book Citroen XM which has photos of a maroon XM bearing New Jersey license tags bearing the words "VEHICLE MFR". Citroen may have brought more than one to the US and they may be the 20 referenced above. I know that an XM led the Citroen parade, "Drive She Said", in Saratoga, New York this year as pictured in the Citroen Car Club of Canada news letter. So, there are not many XM's in the US. I think other die hard Citroen people may be looking for an antique Citroen to import.

Best regards,
Dave
Last edited by Citroen/Dave on Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

xmexclusive
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Re: New Member

Post by xmexclusive » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:05 pm

Hi Dave

I have had a look through the workshop manuals and will scan a few pages that may be of interest.
May take me a little while. I will add to this post page by page and try to reference source documents.
V601.jpg
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V617.jpg
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V619.jpg
V620.jpg
V602.jpg
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V611.jpg
V612.jpg
John
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Citroen/Dave
Can find the S1 radio
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:54 pm
Orga / RP numbers: VF7Y3AL0000AL1619 5111 1990 XM Citroen V6 24v

Re: New Member

Post by Citroen/Dave » Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:31 pm

Thanks, John.

I pulled the shift handle and lifted the keyboard. All wires are plugged in . . . Now if I could just get the engine to start one more time I could try disconnecting the key board as you suggested.

Any thoughts about bypassing the immobilizer and hot wiring the missing function?

Dave

Wow! I just printed the material you sent. What a treasure!

xmexclusive
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Re: New Member

Post by xmexclusive » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:07 pm

Now added 3 pages from the V6 document (keypad info & index).

ECU looks at content of a coded message from keypad.
Simple wire bypass will not satisfy the ECU and unlock the Immo.
While I can reset XM 2.5 engine ECU's never had the need to do so on a V6-24V ECU.

The fact that you have had the engine running suggests the problem may not be the Immo.
I will read up a bit more to try to understand the method used on the V6-24V.
Unfortunately Citroen varied the Immo method between XM engine types.
This is why keypad unplugging does not work on all XM's.

Sorry not to give quick answers but early XM's are not my main interest.

John

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