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xmexclusive
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Re: New Member

Post by xmexclusive » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:31 am

The contact check and then replacement ECU seem logical.
Try the keypad unplug on the existing ECU before you try a second ECU.

If you were over here chances are someone with a similar XM would offer a temporary ECU swap.
Known good in your car and your tried ECU in their working car would answer some outstanding questions.

The lack of keypad lights causes me concern.
It suggests wiring problems between it and the ECU.

John

Dieselman
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Re: New Member

Post by Dieselman » Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:18 pm

A car that runs fine then stops is unlikely to be the ECU. More likely is either a relay or engine wiring harness contact issue.

Meter all voltages before going further.
1992 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
1992 2.1SD M.RP 5685 in ENT Blue Sideral
Previous:
1990 2.1SD M.RP 5049 in EJV Mandarin
1992 2.1SD A.RP 5698 in EJV Mandarin
1994 2.1SD A.RP 6218 in ERT Triton Green
1991 2.0SI M.RP 5187 in EWT White

Citroen/Dave
Can find the S1 radio
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:54 pm
Orga / RP numbers: VF7Y3AL0000AL1619 5111 1990 XM Citroen V6 24v

Re: New Member

Post by Citroen/Dave » Thu Aug 25, 2016 1:16 pm

No luck on the replacement sequence suggested above. I will start over with the spark and fuel pressure check, then with the relays, wiring harnesses, and voltages. I'm also considering moving which will require shedding two cars. So maybe I will be looking for someone to pick up the challenge, or a museum that would like to have a piece of automotive history. Overall this XM is in decent shape: strong engine, smooth transmission, plenty of clutch, no hydraulic leaks, good body, excellent interior, and everything works except the engine. [Any US followers? I have a valid title. Make a low offer . . .]

I see where Peugeot has been experimenting with "shock absorbers" and more recently that Citroen has patented a new "shock absorber" to replace the high pressure hydraulic suspension. Electronics have replaced much of the other Citroen high pressure hydraulic engineering. I am glad I lived through Citroen's development of the modern automobile. I published through the Citroen Car Club of Canada, a series of articles titled "Back to the Future" documenting the history and the people that developed the DS along with a very long list of features of the DS and SM. I have posted 56 technologies that the DS introduced to the automotive industry; some 40 some years of research in a country were Citroen is almost unknown. The US is still oblivious. I managed to get my local newspaper to publish a number of articles about Citroen, even a front page. My DSs greeted high school students at a local college when the arrived for "Engineering Days", expos to attract students into the School of Engineering. I had almost as many teachers and professors as students amazed at what they saw and began to understand. Local car shows were always a treat; I parked on two wheels, complimented all the other owners on their paint jobs, and then spent the rest of the days teaching the public automobile design and safety. It is still fun to explain to passer-by what is under the hood of the XM.

Enough ramble. I purchased this car with the knowledge that it would be my "last great Citroen". No regrets. All of you have been great in the help you have offered and in following this Chapter 15 of "Adventures in a Used Citroen". I will update as the story continues . . .

Citroen/Dave
Can find the S1 radio
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:54 pm
Orga / RP numbers: VF7Y3AL0000AL1619 5111 1990 XM Citroen V6 24v

Re: New Member

Post by Citroen/Dave » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:00 pm

I can't believe it. After making arrangements to donate the XM to a nearby Transportation Museum, I found it necessary to pump up the tires. Only the "new" battery that was on a solar charger was down too much. So I left the battery on a plug-in 120 v charger over night. Next morning I thought that I might see if I could get the suspension to raise up if I ran the starter a couple of time. I would need the car raised up a bit to get it on a rollback transporter. Started up on the first turn over!

I had an ecstatic ride for an hour when I decided to clean the windshield with the wiper; a blade promptly came apart. I stopped at a local parts place to replace the blades. A hippy type pulled up in the van next to me and the gentleman asked if he could photo the car. He had just returned from a band gig in France and was surprised to see an XM in the US. He then informed me that a gentleman in town was rebuilding a DS station wagon. I quickly looked him up and discovered an old mechanic I had met 25 years ago, though he had left town a long time ago.

Short story-long, he said my V6 engine would sometimes fail to start if the battery dropped below 13.7 volts! I can't wait for tomorrow to go on another ride! I hope a hot battery is the cure!

Fellow V6 XM owners take note.

Salman
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Re: New Member

Post by Salman » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:30 am

Hi Dave,
Im having the same problem with mine.I have a Peugeot 605 with exact engine and immobiliser, Tested with a pulse tester and the injector pulse disappears when key pad is locked.Just like yours I got spark and injector pulse on the XM, fitted new Fuel pump, got injectors tested,will fit back on weekend and see.I did notice the brightness of pulse on XM was weaker than the one on 605.Once I rebuilt heads on a Range Rover and it would not start, found the injector earth to be dirty, cut and fitted new eyelet and was good.The earths on XM are yellow/green wires bolted to inlet manifold.

I pulled the shift handle and lifted the keyboard. All wires are plugged in . . . Now if I could just get the engine to start one more time I could try disconnecting the key board as you suggested.

Any thoughts about bypassing the immobilizer and hot wiring the missing function?

Dave

Wow! I just printed the material you sent. What a treasure![/quote]

Salman
Can find the S1 radio
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:17 am
Orga / RP numbers: 05149

Re: New Member

Post by Salman » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:27 am

Hi Dave, I carried out the enhancement on injector wiring earth circuit and car started beautifully.This car had been hard/impossible to start for 8 years.Over time heat and dirt corrode the wiring in eyelets that make earth connection of injector loom, so the initial pulse at start up becomes weak, especially as starter draws up load.Cut recrimp new eyelets and solder then add an extra eyelet wired straight to battery -ve.Get a can of contact cleaner and clean all injector click in connectors.Now if spark is weak or erratic, remove distributor cap and inspect the carbon, if ok must clean the 6 pickup points, use a small file or emery paper on flat screwdriver.The ignition modules do go weak or dead and I suggest you get a new one.

When I purchased the car red showed until I turned the key and entered the code - seemed to be normal - then the green light and the engine fired immediately. After driving a few hours the engine turned over but did not reliably start until the engine (?) had time to cool. Currently (and prior to the starting problem), the green light is on all the time but seems to be weak in intensity; the engine turns over but does not start. I have fuel pressure at the injector rail and I have strong spark. So, I think the immobiliser is the problem. Without an running engine, I can not "unplug" using the suggestion from John, above.

John, the only thing missing from the car, other than a jack and a radio, is the little flap switch that turns on the boot light. I have had the boot latch mechanism out a number of times as the rear bumper was tapped and the boot lid would not latch. Now, it latches. I was wondering if I had disturbed that catch switch that might have lead to the immobilizer problem. Apparently it is not part of the immobilizer system.

I also tried to enter the 0000 code as recommended in a copy of an British owners manual downloaded from the internet, to no apparent effect. I tried the reset after the engine stopped starting, not before.

Without a proper manual I do not yet know how to remove the immobiliser to attempt the disconnect. I have a Haynes manual that does not list the V6 24v engine but probably it will give me the immobiliser dismount information, if and when I get the engine to start.

What does the immobiliser control? I have spark and fuel pressure. Can I put in an override circuit with a switch to control the missing function?

Thanks to all for the warm welcome and fast response.

Apparently, Citroen tried to reenter the US with the XM early on. We have rumors of 20 that may have been brought in perhaps as gray market cars. According to David Burnham, Citroen dealer in New York state, at least 9 of those have been scrapped. David Burnham has two parts cars on E-Bay and owns the original XM Citroen imported that eventually was crash tested at the IIHS (International Institute of Highway Safety) near Charlottesville, Virginia. A rear impact ruptured the gasoline fuel tank or rear fuel system which ended Citroen's return to the US effort. I have a copy of Alberto Martinez' book Citroen XM which has photos of a maroon XM bearing New Jersey license tags bearing the words "VEHICLE MFR". Citroen may have brought more than one to the US and they may be the 20 referenced above. I know that an XM led the Citroen parade, "Drive She Said", in Saratoga, New York this year as pictured in the Citroen Car Club of Canada news letter. So, there are not many XM's in the US. I think other die hard Citroen people may be looking for an antique Citroen to import.

Best regards,
Dave[/quote]

Dieselman
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Re: New Member

Post by Dieselman » Sat Mar 11, 2017 6:45 pm

The US XM's were grey imports iported by CXA, who also provided the two cars that were crash tested. The XM passed the crash test so was allowed to be imported and sold in the USA, but once it had been "federalised" it was an expensive car.

Hydraulic "sinker" Citroens were never imported by Citroen as they had variable bumper height, so couldn't pass the fixed height requirement. Citroen weren't going to pay to make a USA special version, with all the associated costs, for what was a small market, for them.
1992 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
1992 2.1SD M.RP 5685 in ENT Blue Sideral
Previous:
1990 2.1SD M.RP 5049 in EJV Mandarin
1992 2.1SD A.RP 5698 in EJV Mandarin
1994 2.1SD A.RP 6218 in ERT Triton Green
1991 2.0SI M.RP 5187 in EWT White

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White Exec
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1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: New Member

Post by White Exec » Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:18 pm

Ironic that a self-levelling car could be determined to be 'variable bumper height'. What the hell happened when all those wallowy cart-sprung American vehicles took on a bit of weight?
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

Citroen/Dave
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Orga / RP numbers: VF7Y3AL0000AL1619 5111 1990 XM Citroen V6 24v

Re: New Member

Post by Citroen/Dave » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:33 am

After a long hiatus I have started "working" on my 1990 XM V6, again. As in the past, starting was a gamble. Usually it would not. So I started thinking in a new direction. If the ECU is working, and there is spark at the plugs, but intermittent firing of the injectors, why not use old fashion "starting fluid" to see if I could free the injectors up from the other side? I have top grade high octane Shell in the gas tank which has "4 times the legal minimum of detergent" in the formula trying to clean up the entire fuel system. I have added additional detergent.

I just discovered when it fails to start, a shot of starting fluid does the job! Why didn't I think of that before? I guess I was just thinking this machine is too exotic. Time will tell if the injectors will "free up". In the mean time, I get to drive my dream machine. Even though I now carry a can of starting fluid.

I am now looking for part numbers for two replacement belts and oil filter. Could anyone list those for the 1990 V6 24v engine. I believe there were two V6 engines in 1990. I have lost track of how to determine which engine I have, but would be willing to purchase both sets if necessary, to find matches.

Thanks,
Dave from the USA, with apologies to the rest of the world for our politics.

Citroen/Dave
Can find the S1 radio
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:54 pm
Orga / RP numbers: VF7Y3AL0000AL1619 5111 1990 XM Citroen V6 24v

Re: New Member

Post by Citroen/Dave » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:55 pm

I'm not sure my assumption of sticking injectors is correct because there seems to be no improvement in the number of starts without using starting fluid. I would think if it were sticking injectors, they would have cleaned up a bit by now.

At least I can go for a drive now and then. Yesterday, I changed the oil. Three cross referenced oil filters did not fit, but finally we found one off the shelf, a little smaller in capacity, the made it into the space provided. Each improvement however small feels like I have made it to the top of another mountain.

Now, I have a coolant problem. Perhaps a sticking or failed thermostat. On the way home, I discovered a leak. It appears to be at the right end of the tube that the water pump is attached to. The water pump looks new. My next task is to identify the engine type and order two belts, a water pump gaskets, and thermostat.

Could any of you tell me which engine I have or the location of the engine identification number? The reason I ask is that most of the tags in the engine compartment were removed "during shipment" across the pond.

1990 November 5, V6 24v.
VF7Y3ALOOOOAL1619

Thanks,
Dave

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