New Member

New to the forum? Feel free to introduce yourself / your cars. Also have a look for any frequently asked questions and information.
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xmexclusive
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Re: New Member

Post by xmexclusive » Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:52 pm

Dieselman is spot on again.

For the V6 ECU's new from factory they were set to code 0001 and this was the code needed to unlock them.
With that done on an unlocked ECU then setting to code 0000 put the immobiliser out of use.
Then to reinstate the immobiliser code 0001 had to be used.
At this stage 0001 is actually the personal code that the ECU is set to.

If the car owner decided to set their own personal code, 9999 for example.
They must first input the current (new ECU) personal code of 0001.
This releases the ECU ready to set a new code.
Owner then keys in the new 9999 code and the ECU now only accepts a 9999 code.

So as Dieselman says any secondhand ECU will be in an unknown state unless the currently set personal code is supplied as well.
Your ECU.s could be in any of a number of different states:-
1 - Immo set with identified Personal Code.
2 - Set to 0000 (no immo) and ready to accept factory 0001.
3 - Set to 0000 (no immo) and hiding an unknown Personal Code.
4 - Immo engaged with unknown Personal Code.
5 - ECU code altered by specialist to remove the need for an immo code.

Conditions 2, 3 & 5 should allow you to start the car as soon as plugged in, green light so no need to enter a code.
Condition 1 will require entry of the known code to get the green for an engine start.
Condition 4 will require you to guess from 9999 options to get a green (lock out after 3 wrong entries is only 1 minute so about 3 days to try all the options).
Condition 3 is the nasty one where the car starts until you accidentally reset the immo and change it to condition 4.

Try the ECU.s one at a time to see if you get a green and the car starts.
Mark each one with a number or letter and make notes of what happens as you try each one.
Give us the details.

John

Citroen/Dave
Can find the S1 radio
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:54 pm
Orga / RP numbers: VF7Y3AL0000AL1619 5111 1990 XM Citroen V6 24v

Re: New Member

Post by Citroen/Dave » Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:14 pm

Much happiness and joy to report from the US. The XM started on the first crank. I drove it, parked it, stopped it, and it started, again. I did not touch the keypad. I don't want to press my good fortune until I get another response from the UK:

Neither red nor green light is showing on the keypad. Is the correct procedure, unplug the key pad, while the engine is running? Or should I just ignore the key pad? The two ECUs purchased form ATP were in sealed plastic sleeves and at least the 1st one was reprogramed to start. I am not sure how to bypass the keyboard, or if I should. No one is going to steal this car and I don't want to have any further entanglement with the keyboard.

Now that waiting part is over, the real work is at hand. Oil and filter, clean/flush the cooling system, new belts, find an oil dip stick, clean/flush the hydraulic system, replace the rear bonnet electrical switch, find an ABS ECU, find a way of balancing tires on US equipment. I remember when this kind of stuff was called Saturday fun. Now that I am retired, it looks a little like work. I can not afford to break anything.

A real XM owners manual is due to arrive from UK next week. Yes! A little less guess work.

I am looking forward to taking this beauty to local cars shows. My Citroens were always a draw providing a ready audience to teach Automotive Safety and Automotive Design. Many Americans are only impressed by brute acceleration, they purchase lookalike cars Monday morning after the Saturday races. Note that Toyota has finally figured this one, and are now wining at the hot shot race tracks.

Future projects: acquire two new center spheres and mounting stuff to relocate to the trunk. I have very limited access to a lift, but I can make hydraulic and electrical lines. Dave Burnham, Citroen fanatic, could not break the original center spheres loose with out fear of breaking stuff underneath. I can not afford the drive north, his shop fee, and the likelihood of breakage that would require a lot of his shop time to repair. I have lots of time to think this one through. . . I love the ride I have even with the original pressures probably shot in the center spheres. I could only get better.

Thanks again, John, Dieselman, and all the attention on the Forum, your advice is worth at least a couple of rounds the next time I cross the puddle,
Dave

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Re: New Member

Post by xmexclusive » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:08 pm

I would agree with do nothing to disturb the now running car.
Playing with the keypad or unplugging it will only add the potential for you obtaining answers to more unknowns.
It would be a pain if the current setup only worked if the keypad stayed plugged in.

John

Dieselman
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Re: New Member

Post by Dieselman » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:27 pm

To get very stiff centre spheres off you need to ensure they are depressurised and then attach a good metal band wrench (or use a hammer and chisel). To depressurise them you need to have the engine running then lower the ca. Only then undo the 12mm pressure releif port bolt, then you can switch off the engine.

With residual pressure in the spheres they are very difficult to undo.

If you really need to, apply a bit of heat to the sphere near the neck.
1992 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
1992 2.1SD M.RP 5685 in ENT Blue Sideral
Previous:
1990 2.1SD M.RP 5049 in EJV Mandarin
1992 2.1SD A.RP 5698 in EJV Mandarin
1994 2.1SD A.RP 6218 in ERT Triton Green
1991 2.0SI M.RP 5187 in EWT White

Citroen/Dave
Can find the S1 radio
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:54 pm
Orga / RP numbers: VF7Y3AL0000AL1619 5111 1990 XM Citroen V6 24v

Re: New Member

Post by Citroen/Dave » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:09 pm

John,

I agree.

Dieselman,

Dave Burnham and his helper, and I tried every reasonable attack including following the proper procedure you outlined above. We started to rip the mountings off the car and decided to halt. We concluded that the center spheres had never been off the car. All the other spheres came off with just the usually aggravations. For now, I am pleased to just be able to drive the car around a little bit. I also have to do a repair on the exhaust system, so I will be busy enough this Fall getting the ordinary stuff sorted out. I get to take my wife out to dinner this evening in our exotic yard ornament! What fun! It has only been about a year since I drove the car home.

P.S. the ABS warning light mysteriously turned off and has stayed off. The computer keeps reporting first the right and then the left brake light not working. I can live with these minor Citroen gremlins.

Dave
Last edited by Citroen/Dave on Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

xmexclusive
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Re: New Member

Post by xmexclusive » Mon Aug 15, 2016 9:39 pm

Is obtaining a spare sphere base and new sphere the way to go here?
What comes off the car can then be pulled apart in a big vice.
That way the mounting on the car does not get damaged or any pipes bent.

John

Citroen/Dave
Can find the S1 radio
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:54 pm
Orga / RP numbers: VF7Y3AL0000AL1619 5111 1990 XM Citroen V6 24v

Re: New Member

Post by Citroen/Dave » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:15 pm

John,

I do not have free lift time. Getting to those two spheres is a bit of a problem. No one wants to tie up their lifts on a car that might get stuck for a while. Just looking under the car gives most shop owners that certain look like they hope the never see me again. They usually do not want to touch the car for fear they will have to buy it. So, I am thinking that I might make up new units and just use lift time to route pipes and wires to the trunk. [One of my early DSs was purchased by a lady teacher at a nearby university. She picked up her car at the importer near New York City. The Citromatic clutch was never adjusted and it finally started slipping. She had a local American car shop attempt a clutch replacement. The poor mechanic could not figure out how to reassemble the car and it was purchased, shoved to a back storage in pieces, and forgotten. Years later, a friend heard the story, looked up the car dealer, and bought the car in a basket for $25. He reassembled it, drove it for years and sold it to me for $25 when it was fairly high mileage. I drove it for years more and you guessed it, I sold it for $25.]

Another question. Is natural oil recommended or is a Synthetic like Mobile 1 used in these engines? I have no idea what Total Gold is. My engine has over 100000 miles so I am inclined to use the best natural oil I can find. Synthetic oils in old engines tend to find tiny leaks. What do you recommend?

Dieselman
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Re: New Member

Post by Dieselman » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:34 pm

I tend to use semi-synthetic, but have used synthetic. I would err away from mineral oil to reduce engine wear as much as possible.
1992 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
1992 2.1SD M.RP 5685 in ENT Blue Sideral
Previous:
1990 2.1SD M.RP 5049 in EJV Mandarin
1992 2.1SD A.RP 5698 in EJV Mandarin
1994 2.1SD A.RP 6218 in ERT Triton Green
1991 2.0SI M.RP 5187 in EWT White

xmexclusive
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:11 am

Re: New Member

Post by xmexclusive » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:52 pm

Hi Dave

Someone else will have to advise about the oil for early V6 engines.
Have lots of technical information about early XM's but no interest in owning one.

I am not sure that moving the pipework into the boot is worth the effort.
The rear subframe is only fixed with 4 bolts.
With the rear of the car body well up on axle stands the subframe can be dropped enough to get in to the pipes over the top.
So getting in to the centre sphere and its base just needs the exhaust rear and cross box dropped off the hangers.
As I remember the base for the centre sphere has three 11mm bolts and four pipe connections.
Swapping out for a replacement one should be fairly easy and not need the subframe dropped.
I have some loose subframes in the storage unit awaiting rebuilding so will look and see how difficult the front one is to swap.
I will also check the workshop manual to see if your early car uses the standard bases.

John

Citroen/Dave
Can find the S1 radio
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:54 pm
Orga / RP numbers: VF7Y3AL0000AL1619 5111 1990 XM Citroen V6 24v

Re: New Member

Post by Citroen/Dave » Mon Aug 22, 2016 12:33 am

After three glorious rides around town, my XM again refuses to start. I will try a reinstall to see if disturbing the contacts on the ECU provides any improvement. Failing that I will install ECU #2. This time I think I will disconnect the keyboard first. Any thoughts?

Dave

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