New XM owner in Oregon USA

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mixedgas
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Orga / RP numbers: 5586

Re: New XM owner in Oregon USA

Post by mixedgas » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:48 pm

Thank you , I sincerely do appreciate the effort you've put in. I was able to download and print all attachments provided which I note are far superior in clarity to anything else I’ve found (and in English to boot). I'm tracking re: the component numbers (e.g. 755 = fuel pump) but I'm still stumbling on the diagram symbology, e.g. determining from the diagram alone that pin 3 and 5 feed the pump based upon only the circuit diagram.

I found document 560-00/20 in the “Pepon” link you provided above. Using google to translate the French, my understanding of the circuit symbology is overlaid on our fuel pump example. Thank you in advance for educating me on reading the circuit symbology or perhaps pointing me to a spot where this has been covered before!

Anyway, I made the following observations last night:
-Key off, reading 0.2 volts between fuel pump pins 3 and 5.
-Key on, immob code entered (green light on), still reading 0.2 volts between fuel pump pins 3 and 5.
-Cranking starter, reading 10.5 volts between fuel pump pins 3 and 5.
Resistance between pin 5 and battery negative terminal = 47 ohm.

I applied 13 volts to fuel pump pins 3 and 5 with a test battery (vehicle battery disconnected) and no noise or vibration observed from the fuel pump, no fuel coming out.

This leads me to believe that the fuel pump itself is faulty and needs to be replaced before further testing. Part number appears to be 337631 and/or 9600697280, it is Jaeger brand. I’ll work to source a fuel pump but it will take weeks or more to have one sent here from Europe. I would prefer to buy new if possible, please let me know if you have any recommendations on a supplier who ships to the USA.

Thank you again,
Mike
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1992 Citroen XM, 12 valve V-6 PRV engine, 80K miles, Automatic transmission, Black over Black Leather, Located in Oregon USA. VIN: VF7Y3AG0004AG5872.

Also:
1964 Volvo 544
1989 Ferrari 328 GTS
2011 Toyota Tundra

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White Exec
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Re: New XM owner in Oregon USA

Post by White Exec » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:31 pm

Hi Mike,
I'll post a complete list of electrical component numbers (and an alphabetical one) in the morning.
And some notes on reading Citroen's circuit diagrams and symbols.

See below...
Last edited by White Exec on Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

xantia_v6
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Re: New XM owner in Oregon USA

Post by xantia_v6 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:42 am

I guess the part numbers you have given are for the complete sender/pump assembly. I think that you will find that you can replace just the pump, which is probably a standard Bosch unit, used on many European cars, and probably available much more locally.
1999 XM Exclusive V6 24V ES9 Manual (LHD) 105,000 km
1997 Xantia Exclusive V6 (RHD) 45,000 miles

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White Exec
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Re: New XM owner in Oregon USA

Post by White Exec » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:24 am

This is the Citroen code list of Electrical Components for XM:
XM Elec Components - Numerical list.pdf
From this, we also reworked it into an Alphabetic list, with added entries to make for easier searching:
XM Electrical Parts List Alphabetical Vn.3.pdf
Symbols, wiring/connector codes, and how to read:
XM Elec circuits - how to read.pdf

The Pepon1 circuits (Will's link above) are a fairly full set of electrical circuits, with a good index, and covering LHD/RHD models, from RP6383 (1 May 1994) onwards.

A fairly full Citroen Workshop Manual (1856 pages) appears on the Ebaman (ebaman.com) site. It covers model Presentation from M.Y.1995 onwards (RP6383), and so is essentially also for S2. Covers mechanical, engine, suspension, body, etc etc. It is not a complete set of pages, and was likely done to cover S2 2.5 reasonably well. Lots of useful info, plus explanations of "new features" as they were introduced. Includes the Component and Circuit pages above.
ebaman.com
Register (free) and Log-in
> Files Area > Motor > Citroen > XM > Workshop Manual > S1/S2 (check out both)
Then download the zipped files, which are available in several sections, or as a complete item. 1856 pages.
Scan quality for the electrical circuits is tolerable, and best printed out in B&W (A3 if you can, for the Electrical circuits).

Wiring digarams for Series 1 are much more scarce, although John and others here have collected many of them. For copyright reasons, we cannot post them wholesale, but a few pages can be posted to help with individual queries.

For S2, and a model of clarity and intelligent use of colour, worth printing out Gabor's Circuit Diagram Project, here:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7592&start=70#p115087
This is updated by Gabor regularly. Originally a 2.5 project, but now covers other engines too. S2, but useful.

Hope helpful.
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Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

Dieselman
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Re: New XM owner in Oregon USA

Post by Dieselman » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:06 am

Hi Mike,

With regard to the circuit diagram you clipped the relevant information is in the attachements I posted up, in scan number 5.

From the top:

RD is the harness description: RD = Right rear.
G is the wire colour. G = Grey.
755 is the item number. 755 = fuel pump.
5M3 and 5M5 are the connector size, colour and terminal No. 5 pin terminal, brown, 3 and 5 respectively.
RD loom = right rear.
G = Grey wire.
5B1 = 5 pin Blue connector pin 1. This is clipped to the inside of the right hand inner sill.
J = Jaune. Wire colour now Yellow.
PB = Dashboard harness.
5J3 is the 5 pin, yellow connector, earth termination. iirc, termination point m5 is under the steering column.

Image

From your description, it appears the pump is definitely U/s, but before condemning it, remove the unit from the tank and give the pump a good whack. It may just be stuck after such a long time without use.
47 Ohm sounds about right for motor windings, so neither open, or short circuit.
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Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
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Dieselman
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Re: New XM owner in Oregon USA

Post by Dieselman » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:18 am

White Exec wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:24 am


Wiring digarams for Series 1 are much more scarce, although John and others here have collected many of them. For copyright reasons, we cannot post them wholesale, but a few pages can be posted to help with individual queries.

I wouldn't be bothered about copyright on these documents for a couple of reasons.
1: We are not distributing them for commercial gain...there isn't any to be had.
2: Citroen and all it's subsiduaries have ceased supporting the XM model in entirety many years ago. Citroen dealers haven't seen or supported XM's for over 15 years and have dumped all their stock and technical information.
3: By providing ongoing reference and support for the XM, we are increasing awareness, knowledge and interest in the model and marque, which is in Citroens interest.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

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White Exec
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Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: New XM owner in Oregon USA

Post by White Exec » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:31 am

Yes, but copyright still persists in these documents. "Fair dealing" allows us to reproduce small extracts for individual use, but not wholesale reproduction/posting. The policy for the forum over this is a matter for the forum team to decide; I was merely stating what copyright law says. If we have written clearance from PSA for substantial posting, that would be welcome. In its absence, we need to be careful.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

User avatar
White Exec
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Posts: 5878
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
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1996 2.5TD saloon, Exclusive, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: New XM owner in Oregon USA

Post by White Exec » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:45 am

Mike,

If you look at (Pepon1), 515-02/40
(V6 12v LHD Fenix3 RP6383-->)
you'll see the same fuel pump (#755) circuitry.

The fuel pump is powered via the brown "double relay" #807, which is turned on by the IGN sw on 2nd click (IGN full on), and NOT by the cranking position.

This makes sense, because the fuel pump needs to power up and deliver before the engine is asked to fire.

From what you describe, the pump sounds U/S, but its connection 5M3 should be getting full battery power as soon as IGN is fully on. (The 10.5V you reported reflects battery voltage whilst cranking.)
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

xantia_v6
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Re: New XM owner in Oregon USA

Post by xantia_v6 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:07 am

I think that you will find that the injection relay (807) is only energised while the engine is cranking or running. This is standard behaviour for all petrol injection systems to stop fuel flow in the case of an accident which cuts a high pressure fuel line (which would inherently stop the engine).

I would agree with the advice to give the fuel pump a good thump.
1999 XM Exclusive V6 24V ES9 Manual (LHD) 105,000 km
1997 Xantia Exclusive V6 (RHD) 45,000 miles

Dieselman
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Re: New XM owner in Oregon USA

Post by Dieselman » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:26 am

White Exec wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:31 am
Yes, but copyright still persists in these documents.
I don't think the volume of work covered in these cases applies. These are not someones copyrighted idea, but widely circulated technical information, which is now obsolete in both terms of concept and commercial aspect. The manufacturer has wholesale abandoned these products.

I definitely believe that our use falls under "Fair dealing." I have emboldened the sections that would cover this.

Extract from https://www.whoishostingthis.com/resour ... ght-guide/

In England and the United Kingdom, the guidelines are more specific than in the US or Canada, similar to the Australian rules. Fair Dealing there is limited to:

Non-commercial research and private study
Criticism, review, and quotation

News reporting
Satire and parody
Illustration for teaching


I think we, as individuals, need to make a decision that we are either going to help posters that are struggling to obtain information and assistance with problems on their XM's, or we aren't.
Keeping necessary information within a restricted "club" of people, while other forum members struggle, doesn't seem correct.

For Series 1 models, the technical information is very difficult to source. This forum is meant to be the primary source of information.
If some members have information for Series 1 cars and are never going to own one, why keep the material? Why not pass the information onto those that will make use of it?
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

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