Re: Bought my dream car
Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:53 pm
Not as touchy as the 4HP20 then, good to know, thanks.
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ZF don't make transmission fluid and have passed that over to Bosch.xantia_v6 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 15, 2020 5:36 pmTHE INFORMATION ABOVE IS TOTALLY INCORRECTDieselman wrote: ↑Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:42 amThe correct ATF for the Zf-HP20 is any equivelant ofthe Total product listed below: Essensially Dexron 3 equivelant. PSA type 339 ATF.
Product line: Total FLUIDE G3
Manufacturer Release: 339 Typ V1,339 TypZ1, VT H55.633539 (G607), ZF TE-ML 04D, ZF TE-ML 14A, ZF TE-ML 17C, ZF TE-ML03D
Oil - manufacturer recommendation: Allison C-4, Dexron IIIG, Mercon, Volvo 97341
None of the above oils should ever go anywhere near a 4HP20 traansmission.
The only fluid for this transmission is ESSO/Mobil LT 71141 which is available from PSA under part number 9730.AE
The main reason reason that the 4HP20 is very sensitive to oil type is that it has a lock-up torque converter which (for smoothness) is often run with a 4% slippage. A Dextron fluid has the wrong friction coefficient and causes the lock-up clutch to wear, which eventually clogs the (effectively) non-replaceable oil filter to clog up, starving the transmission of fluid pressure, leading to a variety of secondary (often catastrophic) failures.
It is probably a good idea to change the transmission fluid (with LT 71141), but sadly this does not remove the particles which are already starting to block the filter, and the transmission will fail, usually somewhere between 150,000 and 300,000 km.
To change the transmission oil filter, the transmission must be removed from the car. On most models with this transmission, this requires also removing the engine, but I think (having removed and engine transmission from one of these) that there should be just enough clearance on an XM to split the transmission from the engine and lift it separately.
If you want an idea of what is inside the transmission, see CitroJims old site at: http://eastment.net/4hp20/4hp20_introduction.htm (note the navigation is at the bottom right of the page).
The original Citroen training material for the transmission can be downloaded from you will note that on page 7, Citroen state: "Exclusive oil ESSO LT 71141" This is not a Total product, and is not made by Bosch.Dieselman wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:47 am
ZF don't make transmission fluid and have passed that over to Bosch.
Be aware, the Mobil product reference given above is actually a BMW specification for the ZF electronic box, not a Mobil part number... Specification: BMW LT-71141
Total are the partnered oil supplier for Citroen, so the original fill would have been Total brand.
That is true, but ZF-LifeguardFluid5 is only specified for a few transmissions, and is actually ESSO LT 71141. It is a clear synthetic oil with a distinctive odour like cats pee.
There are many oil suppliers who claim that they have products that are replacements for both Dextron and LT71141, but if you compare the look, smell and viscosity, they are nothing like it. I would not trust anything that is not actually approved by ZF (or PSA) for use in this transmission.Dieselman wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:47 amhttps://www.bestpartstore.co.uk/citroen ... sion-fluid
Cross refence specifications from another supplier for 9730.AE.
Capacity: 1 l Packing Type: Bottle Specification: ZF TE-ML 17C, 02F Specification: ZF TE-ML 11B, 14C Specification: ZF TE-ML 04D, 14B Specification: ZF LIFEGUARDFLUID 5 Specification: VW G 055 025 Specification: VW G 052 990 Specification: VW G 052 162 Specification: VW G 050 160 Specification: Nissan Matic-D/J/K Specification: MB 236.9 Specification: MB 236.6 Specification: MB 236.11 Specification: MB 236.10 Specification: MB 235.71 Specification: MAN 339 Type V2/Z3 Specification: MAN 339 Type V1/Z2 Specification: Frod Mercon, MerconV Specification: Ford WSS-M2C938-A Specification: Ford WSS-M2C924-A Specification: Ford M2C922-A1 Specification: Ford M2C202-B Specification: Ford M2C195-A Specification: Chrysler ATF+3/+4 Specification: BMW LT-71141 Specification: BMW LA-2634 Specification: BMW ETL 7045 E Specification: ATF Dexron III H Specification: Allision TES 389 Specification: Allision TES 295 Specification: Allision C-4 Specification: AISIN JWS 3314 Specification: AISIN JWS 3309 Colour: Red
It is your choice to stick to the paid for approved oil...which is why the manufacturers of those products pay for the approval.xantia_v6 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:05 amThere are many oil suppliers who claim that they have products that are replacements for both Dextron and LT71141, but if you compare the look, smell and viscosity, they are nothing like it. I would not trust anything that is not actually approved by ZF (or PSA) for use in this transmission.