My Citroen XM 3.0 PR-Vestige

[White Exec]

For me, it would be the heavily dented fuel consumption of a petrol auto that would be a problem, particularly on high-mileage jaunts. The 2.5 now returns 40+ on this sort of thing, even driven at motorway maximums. It also has no shortage of torque on tap.

Have had quite a lot of automatics, and the biggest snag has been when engine and gearbox are poorly matched. The most recently unimpressive I remember was a ZX 1.9D auto (non-turbo), where the torque/rev band of the engine really didn't correspond to what the gearbox wanted to do. It was a doddle for city driving, small, nippy, but all a bit too busy under the bonnet. A much earlier NA BX (manual, same engine) was a luxurious thing in comparison. The follow-on for the ZX was a Xantia 1.8i auto: nicely paired mechanicals, and pretty intelligent when it came to the auto box changing up and down at speed when cruise was engaged, and with t/c lock-up (which almost seemed like an extra gear) . . . a good car for my then 150 work miles a day.

I do agree that some cars just seem to suit auto boxes rather well. The cars tend to be soft-riding, luxurious, relaxing machines, and probably heavier rather than lighter. In those, you can sit back and just let the car power itself, lazily or swiftly as preferred. I'd put XM and the big Rovers in that category. What step-gear and t/c autos don't seem so happy in are smaller, lighter vehicles. The first Mini automatic was just plain odd - lurchy, in fact. In the 1100 and 1300 it got better (and all those could share the same engine: I had a 1275 (ex-Morris 1300) Mini, which became automatic when the manual box gave up). By the time you got to the 1800, 2200 or 3-litre, an auto box suited the car down to the ground. It could be a case of where size does matter.

But, then again, the 3500S - and an uncle's Ventora (3.3L manual) - were something else. Either way, enjoy it while you can: with the move to EVs, gearboxes are about to disappear.

[Dean]

The installation is progressing along.

The current sticking point is a lack of any real life from the imob keypad.
Unfortunately the keypad that came with YOG is dead due to being rained on and my car has a MK2 keypad fitted from an N reg car.
The keypad was fitted into the Prestige some years ago in a weird fit of curiosity to see if plugging it in to the loose plug under the centre console would make it work, it did not and i never bothered removing it. All its ever done is flash the little red light through the window in the cover and it does this no matter what you do with the car.

Its now all plugged into a fenix ECU which is keypad enabled and it still does the same thing, flashing red light and no sign of life, more concerning at this stage is the lack of life from the ECU itself, there is no fuel pump and no ICV test with ignition on, so far as i can tell the ECU is dead (no power)
The engine harness relay bank that sits in the ecu box does have power to it but no switching signal is coming from the ECU.

At this early stage im not too concerned as it could be something isnt connected although im fairly sure it is.........

Just in case there is a major keypad related issue (like the harness for it is missing in the dash somewhere does anyone have a white label Fenix 3 ECU for an auto transmission (BVA) that does not require a Code? either that or i may beg Matthew to connect my ECU to a V6 and try entering the code i have to see if it works, if it does then maybe it could be unlocked by unplugging the keypad with the car running and send it back?

Unfortunately the keypad didnt work in YOG when i got it due to water ingress on its travels and always showed the red light brightly and the green light constantly flickering very dimmly and never seemed to react favourably to the code when entered but there was a spark and the fuel pump activated on cranking, even if i didnt enter the code so im not sure.

I dont want to go all out cluesso on it if im not 100% sure the ECU is not immobilised and waste time for nothing.

IMG_3258 by Deanxm, on Flickr
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[MTXM]

I was sorry to hear about your troubles Dean and do let me know if I can help and by all means you can send me the ecu for checking. I have '0000'ed all the keypads and ecu's on my cars and I did not realize there was a difference between man and auto! Regards, Matthew T. PS. I do also have a spare white label ecu that is coded out although currently in use, as you will see on my thread!

[Dean]

Thankfully a mild problem!

Just so long as i have the option to make sure the ECU is unlocking and functioning should i come to a dead end Matthew that would be great, thank you.

I will continue on anyway and get the exhuast fitted, MAP sesor and coil mounted and wired up, still got one bank of injectors to wire in yet so it is early days yet still, more a possible hiccup than problem.

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[MTXM]

Please do let me know if you want to assist with the ecu Dean including removing any code. Regards, Matthew T.

[Dean]

Well as you all know that ECU/wiring issue was put to bed with everones help in the electrical section, which is very pleasing.

There a couple of things i would like to know in terms of how things are routed, the throttle cable for one, i would like to know exactly where the OE routing is for that and where it clips in place, also the routing for the evap control system vent pipe from the charcoal canister in the wheelarch to the throttle body.

I would like to see the mounting brackets for the engine cover as i have none and will need to make some, would just like to see how Citroen did it.

Also if anyone has the pipe from the ICV to the (air box?) i would like one of those as they should be a shaped pipe which would be difficult to make up and i would not want a pipe that looks like a dead snake laying across the engine bay in the long term.

The plan is to have the hydraulic resovoir back in tomorrow, to pressurise the hydraulics, lift the car and test for leaks on the steering gear, FDV and Pressure reg, fingers crossed for that one!.

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[MTXM]

Hi Dean,
The throttle cable simply runs around the engine mount against the ecu box and across the front of the engine against the injector rail and there are no clips required. I can send you some photos of the engine cover brackets that are simply two lugs on the front that I know were missing on the one I supplied. It should also be possible to supply a breather pipe for the idle valve that is shaped around the lhm tank underside etc. as suggested. I hope all goes well with the lift!
With regards,
Matthew T.

[Dean]

Thank you Matthew and the pipe would be good please yes.

More success and more possible woe today. Sucess was the installation of all hydraulics that primed up fine and had no leaks, i lot of re-bending of existing pipework was required but it looks very neat and i have managed to raise the back end of the car.

I capped the return outlet from the thermostat housing and fitted an old top hose from a 2.0i engine to the outlet which i tied up to the open bonnet, filled the system with water just so the water jacket had something in it and started her up, this was the first real run of the engine other than previous sort of "wow it's running!, turn it off quick" attempts and unfortunately it is as rough as a badgers crotch, the open bonnet was rippling like a sheet in the wind, the car was vibrating around the garden on its axle stands, ok slight exageration but it does run very rough.

Now i wasnt that bothered as i could have a bad plug (not put new ones in yet) or the leads could be duff or something else giving a missfire as it fires straight up, idles at 1100rpm and quickly settles to around 800rpm, maybe just below but i sat down this evening and thought about it and the ecu still insists it has a permanent fault, 'speed sensor comunication' and i wondered if i had got the ballance shaft timing wrong although that would never make an engine shake like that at idle, or give a ECU fault, there is no EML on.

Now ive had a thought about the engine management and have started thinking long and hard (bit late now ) about using the early ECU with whats supposed to be a later, reduced capacity engine (SFZ 10FV70 0042091). As a worst case scenario the ecu isnt happy about something timing wise i would guess by the nature of the fault and i know ive got the timing right as i followed the cit instructions, my chains were factory marked and i confirmed on cylinder 1 with the cam timing just to be extra sure and it all looked good before it went back together.

Of course tomorrow i will confirm there is no missfire, like the rear bank of injectors is working still, pull some HT leads and plugs, have a feel of the exhaust manifolds, usual stuff and im hoping it's a simple hicup but it does feel far too rough to be just a cyl or two not pulling its weight.

Exhaust to go on first though!! as before i started it the birds were singing up and down the street, the sound of laughing children was all around, then i fired the beast up which at this present time is breathing though only the cat, 5 minutes running and reving and when i turned it off the street was silent, no birds were singing, not a child to be heard, for 5 minutes after you could of heard a pin drop round here, it is a tad vocal

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[misha]

Rough running could be because the engine was a bit flooded with fuel from all those unsuccessfull starting attempts.Spark plugs could be wet from fuel also.

[xantia_v6]

the ecu still insists it has a permanent fault, 'speed sensor comunication'
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In your other topic, you described it as a crank position sensor fault. They are different things.