About to take delivery

New to the forum? Feel free to introduce yourself / your cars. Also have a look for any frequently asked questions and information.
Dieselman
Global Moderator
Posts: 13734
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:44 pm

Re: About to take delivery

Post by Dieselman » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:26 am

xmexclusive wrote: I examined 7 dip beam reflectors and none showed any sign of heat damage to the silvering or evidence of oxidation.
Six were from Mk 2 lamps and one Mk 1 lamp.
Settled dust was a factor from long service.
Similarly dust was the only factor on the main beam reflectors.
I remain certain that reflector heat damage is not an issue with XM headlamp reflectors.
I have a selection of series 1 lamp units and have definitely experienced heat damage to a number of the reflectors. The heat damage is evident by the silvering becoming cloudy and brittle.
Series 1 lamp units also suffer severe reflector oxidysation if not in use, or dry storage.

Maybe series 2 units don't suffer this.

I think a good solution would be to use reflectors from another modern model of car. I think Laguna mk1 and Mk2 units would fit into XM lamp units well and possibly Volvo V40. These would alleviate the need for any lens as the reflectors are genuine complex parabolas, focussing the light without any further requirement.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

xmexclusive
Global Moderator
Posts: 5925
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:11 am

Re: About to take delivery

Post by xmexclusive » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:18 pm

Hi Dean

The XM units were designed by Valeo to Citroen specification.
They were the first use of complex surface reflectors for headlights.
The dip beam design achieved the retention of all output to within then French regulations limiting pattern.
It was claimed to light this area better than any previous design.
That means no scatter and does not claim full and even coverage, just the best that had been achieved at that time.
Valeo and Citroen state that:-
"The output and efficiency of headlamps is determined by the manufacturing quality, shape and above all, the size of their reflectors".
They accept that round reflectors are the best option and easiest to manufacture.
However in response to the demands of stylists and aerodynamicists car body shapes took precedent.
Their spec revolved mainly around the already fixed body shape and therefore available lamp slot.
The glass rake angle was a major design constraint as optically a 20% slope absorbs 12% of light output.
They also note:-
"Today, when most headlamps are of varying shapes, one rarely sees the old round type.
However these different shaped lights have inferior performance to round parabolic ones".

Valeo will have designed the Rover lights to UK dip spec and specified size and shape.
With previous experience from the XM design I am not surprised they achieved better with a later design.
The body shape spec may well have been less demanding and Valeo a bit more vocal to get that better result.

There are a number of possible options for upgrade.
Most that have been tried so far do not meet either output or compliance requirements.
For UK approval the complete modified unit and bulbs must be approved by test in the vehicle it is to be used in.
I find this a very difficult hurdle in the way.
My personal solution is based on new and refurbished Mk 2 standard units.

John

User avatar
White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 6642
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, Exclusive, Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime, Sable Phenicien
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: About to take delivery

Post by White Exec » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:17 pm

Room for one of these inside the dip-beam enclosure?
http://www.myhellalights.com/index.php/ ... -headlamp/
The unit is H4 ECE, so will be capable of proper dip pattern (main beam too).
Hella halogen units are outstanding in quality, I remember.
Anyone's guess what the additional XM front glass will do.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

User avatar
russ92xmsed
Global Moderator
Posts: 5733
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:23 pm
Location: Cheltenham
Contact:

Re: About to take delivery

Post by russ92xmsed » Thu Dec 28, 2017 2:40 pm

Dieselman wrote:
I think a good solution would be to use reflectors from another modern model of car. I think Laguna mk1 and Mk2 units would fit into XM lamp units well and possibly Volvo V40. These would alleviate the need for any lens as the reflectors are genuine complex parabolas, focussing the light without any further requirement.

Interesting thought. What about Vauxhall Calibra. They were very narrow headlights. Or Peugeot 406 or even 306.

I'd be very interested to see Rays conversion.
Russ

1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5712
1992 K reg XM 2.1 Auto SED RP 5705 (D)
Also
2003 C5 2.2 HDI Exclusive

I sell Engine bay, 1990 COTY, Total & Club XM Sticker Decals
http://www.rjwcreativedesign.co.uk

Dieselman
Global Moderator
Posts: 13734
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 6:44 pm

Re: About to take delivery

Post by Dieselman » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:15 pm

I think for OEM replacement lights from Hella, these would be better than sealed beam lights. http://www.myhellalights.com/index.php/ ... dule-gen2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The downside to all projector type lamps is the light passes through a thcick glass lens, which will always reduce output, hence I think a modern reflector lamp is a better idea, as all teh light is reflected forwards.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

User avatar
White Exec
Citroen God!
Posts: 6642
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:38 pm
Orga / RP numbers: RP7165
1996 2.5TD saloon, Exclusive, Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime, Sable Phenicien
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: About to take delivery

Post by White Exec » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:11 pm

The Hella units I suggested above are not sealed beam units, but metal reflector/glass front/H4 units designed to replace sealed beam with much more efficient halogen. I used the round versions numerous times to replace OE 7" and 5.75" sealed beam on Rover P6, Dolomite, 1300 and Mini. Output and coverage was first class on both beams.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
1992 BX19D Millesime RP5800 Sable
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998..2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001..2003

User avatar
djg
Could do a 2.1 headgasket
Posts: 1181
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:28 am
Orga / RP numbers: 7261
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Contact:

Re: About to take delivery

Post by djg » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:40 pm

Those 90 mm modules are really nice, there are even versions without the high beam. I never disassembled our headlamps (having the benefit of Mk2 and LHD, I never really needed to do so) but those of you who did, is something like this feasible? Do these come to replace the usual units from behind, fitting-wise?
Bye,
Gábor

1996 XM 2.5 Turbo D VSX (LHD, Bleu Mauritius)
1986 BX 19 TRI Break (LHD, Rouge Vallelunga) deceased
1996 AX 14 D (LHD, Alaska White) in family

xmexclusive
Global Moderator
Posts: 5925
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:11 am

Re: About to take delivery

Post by xmexclusive » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:31 pm

The XM dip reflector is a separate part, it screws in with 4 screws.
Mounting holes are 150mm lateral by 65mm vertical.
That Hella unit only specifies the lateral fixing holes at 143mm.
I estimated the vertical fixing holes at 72mm apart vertically.
The opening for the XM dip front reflector is 150 lateral by 70mm vertical.
The Hella unit will be a very tight fit vertically in the XM outer case probably preventing beam adjustment.

John

Post Reply