Greetings from Finland

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Teuski
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Greetings from Finland

Post by Teuski » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:51 am

I have tried to life my life without a Citroen with no hydraulic suspension for almost a year now and just couldn't take it anymore. That's the reason I had to buy a cheap, rusty XM. That's the first XM i have owned. Other Citroens i've had during the ten years i have suffered from this disease are BX's, ZX, CX, Visa, Xantiae, Xsaras, Dispatch, C4 and lots of mk1 C5's. Currently i have a C3 Picasso as a daily driver and also a '89 AX. As for the other French makes i've had a 205 and 406 and also a ph2 Renault Safrane which was an awesome car.

Well, back to the XM:

It's a '90 2.0i with the 120hp RFZ engine and manual gearbox. Hydractive I and no fancy stuff like ABS or AC, but it has the additional rear window :)

I knew the rocker panels had big rust holes and the car had other problems too. Last passed MOT was from 2011, but it was tried last year.
Aside from the rust the reasons for failure were also engine oil leak and "fault in hydropneumatic suspension, rear, spheres are loose" which sounds pretty interesting.

Well, apparently someone had tried to fix those, as the engine isn't leaking and it had new spheres in all corners. I drove it home for 20 kilometers and the rear end was weirdly bouncy. Turns out the new rear spheres were actually rear regulators so no wonder there wasn't much shock absorption. I swapped in some old Xantia front spheres i had, and as i suddenly had two brand new regulators i swapped that one too. I also put in a better main accumulator as the original one was almost dead. As for the moment i'm planning to install the other rear regulator to the front but can't get my current tools around the old sphere to change it.

My plan is to, with as less financial effort as possible, to verify the car's condition before i make the decision to get the rust fixed because that is something i just cannot handle myself :) So far it looks good. The suspension seems to work, although i'm not really sure about the hydractive as i can't take it for a longer test drive without MOT.

I only have a problem with the fuel pump control. Seems like there is something wrong with the ECU because the relay control ground is constantly switching on-off when the key is on IGN. When the engine runs it is all ok. I already ordered a spare ECU to try.
Well, more about that in the technical section some other time...

I dream of a S1 V6 24V, the most interesting model because of the DIRAVI. Am i right that RHD models never had that?

Dieselman
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Re: Greetings from Finland

Post by Dieselman » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:27 pm

I saw you 'space hopper' video the other day.
In general the car appears to be in good condition, so imho, you should rescue it.

92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
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Julianw
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Re: Greetings from Finland

Post by Julianw » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:14 pm

Welcome and well done! Rusty and with some great bodges by previous owners. I think you're going about this in completely the right way! Good luck getting this sorted out.

( I too dream of a V6 and very keen to try diravi. Yes, that's my understanding too - UK cars never got diravi, but I guess you want a LHD one anyway?...)

Teuski
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Re: Greetings from Finland

Post by Teuski » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:56 am

Yes, LHD is the preference here. So the XM of my dreams is a PRV 24V because that's the only one with it. A break would be the coolest but they are pretty rare. I once went to look at one in a local dealership, but it was pure crap. Even the subframe was rusted through.

I once had a '80 2.5D CX estate for a while. It had served as a hearse in it's early life but was later converted to a 7-seater familiale which i think it had originally been. When it came to me it was only a 2 seater van due to Finnish diesel tax tricks. For a car that size you have about 450€ extra annual tax for diesel while the fuel itself costs about 0,2€ less a litre. When registered as a 2 seater van, which people do quite a lot for wagons, the tax is only about 70€.

I once had a ph2 Xantia 1.9TD auto estate as a van and that was unarguably the best daily driver i've had. The dreaded AL4 is actually quite pleasant with the XUD9 :)

Dieselman
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Re: Greetings from Finland

Post by Dieselman » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:13 am

For the ECU relay control issue, I would suspect either the ignition switch, or a poor ground or wiring before the engine ECU.
Check the contacts onto the relays mounted on the front of the ECU box as they regularly have poor contacts.

The Hydractive 1 suspension system is generally reliable and I wouldn't expect any serious fault with it.

A Blink code reader is invaluable for these cars. See the below link.

viewtopic.php?t=7368

Early series1 XM are now very rare and imho, the nicest of the Series 1 cars, most true to the design breif. The rear end of the sill and the jacking point look good on your car, so the body is unlikely to have terminal rust.

As far as DIRAVI, all LHD V6, series 1, cars have that fitted. There V6-24 was never built as an estate.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

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White Exec
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1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
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Re: Greetings from Finland

Post by White Exec » Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:47 am

Following Will's pointer, check all the ground connections on the inner wings, and another set behind the trim panel at the bottom of the A-post, in the RH footwell.
Early cars had problems with grounding points, and cars were recalled and modified.
If you have the later bolt-down grounding points, unbolt each and clean up all the contact surfaces back to bare metal.

All the relays at the front of the engine bay are prone to weather and dampness over the years, and corrosion/dirt on their base contacts. Easily removed and cleaned up.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

xmexclusive
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Re: Greetings from Finland

Post by xmexclusive » Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:19 am

Chris makes a very valid recommendation in his post.
I do not recall an explanation on here as to why the cleaning of grounding points is so important.
It is all related to the resistance any joint in a wire adds to the total resistance of that wire connection.

Early XM's had spade connector blocks on these chassis studs.
Earth route was wire/spade blade contacts/washer/nut/nut threads/stud body.
Each of those connection points added so much extra contact resistance that the early XM's had significant earthing problems.

To solve these problems Citroen changed to ring terminals at the front and doubled the number of earth points at the rear.
Most early XM's got a recall for these mods.
It solved most problems then but poor earthing can reappear as XM's age.

From factory the chassis is painted and this forms a thin insulating layer.
So the earth route is now cable/ring terminal/top side of ring terminal/nut/nut threads/stud body.

If you clean the little bit of chassis the underside of the ring terminal will sit on you add a new extra much more direct earth route.
Cable/ring terminal underside/chassis.
This extra route has the effect of reducing the connection resistance by a factor of at least 3.

Do not use serrated washers or Vasaline on the joint faces when making these connections.
Both will greatly increase the resistance.

Use the Vasaline on the made joint to stop corrosion getting in.

John

Teuski
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Re: Greetings from Finland

Post by Teuski » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:45 am

Dieselman wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:13 am
As far as DIRAVI, all LHD V6, series 1, cars have that fitted. There V6-24 was never built as an estate.
Oh, my bad :) Well, that explains my thoughts of a DIRAVI estate, it is not an unicorn :)
I think there also early Y4's that have a PRV and DIRAVI...
Basically all LHD PRVs have DIRAVI.

I have the bolt-down type earth points and i have cleaned them up. I should get the new ECU early this week and if it doesn't help i suspect the ignition switch next. I suppose ECU grounding is good because everything works well with the engine running. It is the earth from the ECU that is cutting out. If I control the relay with direct ground it stays on, but the purge line valve still keeps ticking.

I opened the ecu and everything seems good. I measured pin20 up to the transistor controlling it and, although tested on place it seems to be ok.

My sills are pure crap front of the front doors and little bit up to the wheels wells. There are also holes on both sides in front of the b pillars. So far it seems ok, but as you know these things tend to get out of hand...

Dieselman
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Re: Greetings from Finland

Post by Dieselman » Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:55 am

Teuski wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:45 am

Oh, my bad :) Well, that explains my thoughts of a DIRAVI estate, it is not an unicorn :)
I think there also early Y4's that have a PRV and DIRAVI...
Basically all LHD PRVs have DIRAVI.
DIRAVI was deleted from all Series 2 cars as a cost saving measure.
Teuski wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:45 am
My sills are pure crap front of the front doors and little bit up to the wheels wells. There are also holes on both sides in front of the b pillars. So far it seems ok, but as you know these things tend to get out of hand...
The back of the wheel housing and the front jacking points are common areas for rot on an XM, along with the rear of the sills and the rear chassis where the subframe mounts bolt to, under the boot floor.
Other common areas are the front bumper hangers and the front inner wing splash shield under the ECU box and air filter.
The rest of the body is usually OK.
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

Teuski
XM newbie
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2019 3:24 pm

Re: Greetings from Finland

Post by Teuski » Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:18 am

Dieselman wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 7:55 am
DIRAVI was deleted from all Series 2 cars as a cost saving measure.
Feast your eyes on this:
https://www.nettiauto.com/en/citroen/xm/10796795

Citroen Service also knows DIRAVI for Series 2.

ES9 vas never with DIRAVI.
Last edited by Teuski on Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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