Some choice xm images....

[captainhaddock]

I'd pick the both of you to design a new citroen Why don't you send a few ideas to Paris...

As mentioned before: I never even looked at an XM unlike all the other Citroen models. So well designed or not, it didn' 'do' it for me. I only started liking the model recently.
And I do like quite a number of modern Audi's and Mercedesses... I really prefer the design of the DS and the CX...All softer and more round. My other half does not like the CX model really, only likes it cause I like it but she loves the DS and XM. All different tastes I guess.

[russ92xmsed]

..problem is Jaap, they're hell bent on designing cars which don't have the DS, SM, CX and XM style....
elegance without the unessessary over the top detailing. everything just seems overly styled nowadays.

[captainhaddock]

Overstyled. Problem I have, is that they come up with say a really nice front, an OK rear and usually the rest is crap looking. And if not, they're far too expensive.

[casalingua]

Quite right about the execution of the XM. They considered it very closely: they put a lot of time into it. The short lead times of modern cars has reduced what I believe is called "soak time" by some. Some of the current crop of Audi are very satisfying precisely because of their extreme orderliness. I think they are pursuing a philosophy Mercedes did up to two decades ago of having a contemporary car with carefully resolved details closely aligned to the latest production methods. The A4 is exemplary in that regard, especially on the inside. About the CX, it´s not really as round as it looks, if I can say that. There are small radii on the folds from upper to side surfaces and the windscreen to roof is more angular and upright than the XM. The DS is on the other hand very fluid and smoothed, barring the relatively upright windscreen. I´d hate to try to do a contemporary large Citroen. That would be a real challenge. I might tend to do it in too retro a fashion probably because I´d be tempted to pack in too many references. But maybe I´d do something I liked better than the current crop which are not very Citroen-y at all, in my eyes.

[Charles M]

Mercedes current styling leaves me totally cold, over-fussy, conforming to a family style book of extraordinary ugliness.

The poverty of contemporary design keeps pushing me back to older cars (as does the complexity of a modern vehicle - I can't see many of today's vehicles making middle aged, let alone old bones)

[casalingua]

Yes, Mercedes is a manufacturer whose actual designs (aesthetically) fall far very short of the quality you´d expect. They really aren´t trying very hard. People will buy them regardless of how banal they look and most of them are as banal as anything from Toyota. The comparatively uninteresting character of very many contemporary vehicles is partly down to the reduction of influence of individuals. I think clinicking, market-research, corporate processes and the large sweep of the markets militates against idiosyncratic design. I have no date to back this up but my guess is that the design teams responsible for cars were a lot smaller in the past than they are now. As such the power of one person to decide on something outré or odd is reduced. But also I must say that we tend to compare the mass of modern cars to a few remarkable designs from the past. If we were to stand in an 80s car park we might find very few cars that stood out from that group of vehicles. The bulk of older cars were quite unremarkable when seen in the midst of their peers. But take one of those and plop it into a modern car park and its angularity and very different mode of construction would give it a relative individuality that was out of proportion to its relative distinction when it was new.
And finally modern cars come with any number of time bombs attached: the spare parts that won´t be available and the complex systems that a mechanic won´t be able to fix. There won´t be forty year old 2013 Lexuses or Mazdas in 2053, at least not running and not as they left the factory. The golden age of classic cars ended when electronics invaded every corner of the car´s body. The beloved Bosch ABS sensors the XM are but one small example.

[Dieselman]

I like some of the current Mercedes styling. The CLS and SLK come to mind particularly.

[captainhaddock]

Not badly designed, is it..

[russ92xmsed]

Mercedes current styling leaves me totally cold, over-fussy, conforming to a family style book of extraordinary ugliness.

The poverty of contemporary design keeps pushing me back to older cars (as does the complexity of a modern vehicle - I can't see many of today's vehicles making middle aged, let alone old bones)

This is generally how I feel.....I think actually Merc seems to be getting better. Quite like the E class coupe...can't think of the proper name!, yeah and the one Jaap has found, basically an S class coupe, and the new C class not yet launched is looking promising. But I know what you mean. They are all doing it. Ugly over styled crease lines and fussy detailing. I like the 208, but can't help thinking it needs refining more. De cluttering a bit.
I think one of the worst redesigns is the current Civic....they made a really nicely resolved modern design ...infact a good citroen design if you think about it....and created a lumpy egg. Horrid thing. Such a shame.

[captainhaddock]

If you say 'egg', Russ, first thing that come to mind is the citroen Picasso. The first one, that is... Must check that civic