V6 in Norfolk

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dsxm
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V6 in Norfolk

Post by dsxm » Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:26 pm

Hello people,

I have just joined as having recently bought a '94 V6 12valve with a few 'issues' and having got it roadworthy will now begin the well trodden path of learning the foibles of these cars.
As I have come from the land of DS restoration, the amount of electronics has already frustrated me, but the V6 was the main reason for this purchase and so far is beginning to give me the driving experience that a DS does not have (until I fit one of these engines in one...)

Issues still with the car include : permanently in sport mode, central locking not working, oil leak from rocker cover, strut tops not in the best of health, rodent damage to the engine bay soundproofing and the second from last exhaust silencer crusty.

I have fixed : NS door window mechanism changed, new comfort spheres all round, sunroof failure traced to the switch with a broken soldered joint, full service with aux belts and auto box fluid, new tyres, door catch replacement, rear silencer replacement, leather feed to all seats and a respray (Emerald Green)

So as you can see, a rolling restoration, or work in progress as you like.

I look forward to conversing with the great and the good here in XM land and learning the knowledge.

DSXM :)

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White Exec
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1996 2.5TD saloon, manual, Polar White
Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: V6 in Norfolk

Post by White Exec » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:23 pm

Hi and welcome!

This is the place to get the answers, and plenty of info, not least on electrics, electronics and suspension.
Norfolk is also rather a good place to be for a V6 - see Matthew's (MTXM) posts! :)

Look forward to your posts, and some photos of you can.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

Dieselman
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Re: V6 in Norfolk

Post by Dieselman » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:31 pm

White Exec wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:23 pm
Hi and welcome!

This is the place to get the answers, and plenty of info, not least on electrics, electronics and suspension.
Norfolk is also rather a good place to be for a V6 - see Matthew's (MTXM) posts! :)

Look forward to your posts, and some photos of you can.
And some strut tops from davetherave, as advertised in the sales section. Dave is in Norwich and iirc, has a Lexia.

For the Hydractive issues, make yourself a Blink Code reader. All will become clear.

viewtopic.php?t=7368

Personally, I would avoid comfort spheres, they are too wallowy. A properly working hydractive is sublime...soft and floaty, then razor sharp.

p.s. All our cars are rolling restorations...some, more rolling than restoration.

As an early series 2 car, a Blink Code reader will work, but a lexia is easier due to the 30 pin socket.
Being a Hydractive 2 car, there is a reasonable chance the H/A failure is down to either electrovalve, possibly just requiring a diode modification.
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White Exec
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Re: V6 in Norfolk

Post by White Exec » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:23 pm

Seconded!

Would be a good idea to check out that the Hydractive (Hydractive 2 for your car) is working properly.

If you've not already come across it, there's an excellent description of conventional and Hydractive (1, 2, 3, 3+, Activa) hydropneumatic suspension here:
http://citroen.tramontana.co.hu/en/the- ... ical-guide.
Author Gabor has also produced an extraordinarily clear and helpful set of electrical wiring diagrams for XM, now covering the various models:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7592&start=60#p112051
This is downloadable and printable.

With Hydractive, the softness of ride is provided solely by the centre ('hydractive') spheres, which are switched into circuit by the front and rear Electrovalves, and in doing so add sphere volume and additional gas springing to the system. In soft mode, six spheres are providing the ride: 4 x wheel (corner) and 2 x centre.

When the system automatically switches to Firm (action of body movement, steering movement, firm braking, significant use of accelerator pedal), the Electrovalves switch off, and the centre spheres are no longer hydraulically in circuit. This leaves the suspension Firm, and also reduces body roll.

If there is an electrical fault with the Electrovalves, the centre spheres will remain locked out, and ride will be constantly firm.
There are various causes for this, and we can advise on suitable system tests.

Left with only the four corner (wheel) spheres in operation, a "comfort" ride can be created by fitting "Comfort" spheres. These spheres usually operate at higher gas pressure than normal, and also have less built-in hydraulic damping. The trouble is, the controlled, stable, firm ride of the car - for demanding conditions - disappears, and this can compromise handling and safety, as well as producing a wallowy ride. With Hydractive, the four corner spheres were never designed to provide a Soft ride - unlike DS, BX and CX and other non-Hydractive models. The softness with Hydractive comes solely from the centre spheres.

Poor ride comfort is often assumed to be a fault with the corner (wheel) spheres. This is a misunderstanding, because in all likelihood, the problem is with the centre ones: either
- down on gas pressure or ruptured
- incorrect spheres (they should have no damping inserts)
- Electrovalves not operating correctly.

Although a few experiments have been done with fitting "Comfort" spheres to XM, the results have always been compromising. Putting the system into good fettle is not difficult, and is now well understood. We'd be pleased to help out, and suggest a few checks and tests.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

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Re: V6 in Norfolk

Post by xmexclusive » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:32 am

As Chris explains above fitting comfort spheres to an XM is often used as a quick fix to avoid the cost and extra work of a full repair.
In recent years there were a lot of XM's out there as working cars with very suspect suspensions.
Many have now gone to scrap with a lot of the residue in enthusiasts hands.
Fighting rust, particularly sill area, and getting suspensions back to spec are the order of the day normally then sort the body and trim.

Those enthusiast owners used to the always soft ride of a DS but new to an XM tend to find the hydractive stiffening on curves very different.
Hardened XM owners with a decently powered engine though usually come to enjoy the extra stability on windy roads.
Particularly when followed by German tat expecting an easy pass but actually getting a very rough ride trying to keep up.

Make sure your suspension is working correctly.
Then perhaps try a set of standard corner spheres and compare the ride.

John

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MTXM
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Re: V6 in Norfolk

Post by MTXM » Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:48 am

A very warm welcome to the Forum DSXM and where exactly are you located in Norfolk? It does sound like you have a few issues to solve but have already secured some excellent advice! Is this the car that was advertised recently and imported from Jersey? With regards, Matthew T.
1989 V6 Exclusive (Poland car)
1990 V6sei auto (grey auto)
1990 V6sei manual (gold car)
1990 V6.24 Pallas (Germany car)
1990 V6.24v (Scotland car)
Other previous XM sold and broken too many to mention!

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Re: V6 in Norfolk

Post by Dieselman » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:51 pm

xmexclusive wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:32 am

Particularly when followed by German tat expecting an easy pass but actually getting a very rough ride trying to keep up.


LOL. A quality welcome. Don't hold back John, say what you mean... :D
92 2.1SED M.RP5740 ECZ Sable Phenicien
92 3.0 V6-24.Rp 5713 EXY Black
92 2.1SD M.RP 5685 ENT Blue Sideral
Prev
90 2.1SD M.RP 5049 EJV Mandarin
92 2.1SD A.RP 5698 EJV Mandarin
94 2.1SD A.RP 6218 ERT Triton Green
91 2.0SI M.RP 5187 EWT White

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White Exec
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Location: ex-Ealing, Cheshire, W.Sussex & Surrey. Now living in Sayalonga (Malaga, Spain)

Re: V6 in Norfolk

Post by White Exec » Sat Jul 13, 2019 2:39 pm

That did make me smile, too. ;)
I have 8km of winding but well-tarmac"d two-lane mountain road from the coast to our village, with sweeping bends and only a few places for safe overtaking. So easy to leave B..., M... and A... standing on that curving climb, and left for dust on the uphill straights. XM just stays glued to the road.
Chris
1996 XM 2.5TD Exclusive RP7165 Polar White
2003 RAV4 D4D 2.0 5dr LHD Silver WORKHORSE
1989 BX19RD Delage Red Deceased; 1998 ZX 1.9D Avantage auto Triton Green Company car 1998-2001; 2001 Xantia 1.8i auto Wicked Red Company car 2001-2003

dsxm
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Orga / RP numbers: RP 6535

Re: V6 in Norfolk

Post by dsxm » Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:32 am

Thanks for all this advice. I do want to get the suspension working correctly, and if the comfort spheres turn out to be detrimental to the overall experience then I am happy to change them.

Yes MTXM, this is the recently advertised Jersey car, which I couldn't resist as it was 2 miles from my house. and it had the right engine, of course. I am in Tacolneston and would like be interested in meeting you seeing as you are the V6 collector general :-)

I like the idea discussed elsewhere on here of fitting the later Xantia central sphere control block to both ends, but that will have to wait until after I have got theses ones working properly.

Being used to a DS that rolls in corners, but has the wafty ride, I would like to see how close I can get the XM to behave in that manner.

Some years back I had an Activa which was stunning in terms of handling, allowing ridiculous speeds to be carried into, and round roundabouts. It was way too good and I often found myself in trouble due to other cars just not expecting me to be where I was...And the ride was too hard for me overall. Still it was fun while it lasted.

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Re: V6 in Norfolk

Post by xmexclusive » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:28 am

I would research the use of Xantia central sphere block very carefully.
This valve was introduced around the time that Citroen evolved the hydraulic suspension union on the Xantia (ORGA 8057).
It involved a major change in the connection of 10mm hydraulic pipes.
XM's continued old system to the end of production.
Citroen issued a warning:
The thread on the old and new unions is the same M16 x 150.
Mixing of old and new parts is prohibited.

As far as I can see it is the series of reducing diameter machining at the hole base that removes most of the contact area for the old style pipe end.
It may well seal but not with the contact area that was originally designed.
It may well be that to do this mod in a manner that is safe for the system pressure new 10mm rear pipes need to be made up with the later end fitting.

Reference for this is in the Xantia workshop manual BRE 0031 GB Additive No. 3 dated Dec 1998.

John

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